Level Design

[darksensei]

Originally Posted by splok

If you want to make something that looks just like Oblivion, then it's good, otherwise it's pretty limiting. The meshes are pretty much purpose built, and there's no bsp editor. Having said that, if you're ok with basically working with Oblivion legos, then you can get something decent looking up and running quite fast.

You can do some cool stuff with the The Elder Scrolls Construction Set, despite it's limitations.



This bottom one is a vertical level.



It's not going to give you the tools you need to be a level designer, but it's a great place to start. Another really straightforward place to start is with RTS Editors. They are probably the easiest to pick up, and you'll soon get a feel for how much scripting is involved in making stuff cool.

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by Grave

Any recommendations for someone who hasn't messed around with the programs at all? Any easier to pick up and use than others?

Not sure how much this will help you...

The last 10 or so game (or game/simulation like) projects I have worked on, we did ALL of the pre-visualization inside of our 3d program (3ds Max). We just imported the 2d drawings in on a scaled plane, and traced the walls and voila, instant pre-vis. This let us not only set up a walkthrough assistant, but allowed us to manually break up all the pieces into their own respective meshes for texturing and import as we needed to.

I'll mock up a quick example later today once I get back from meetings and meeting the new guy.

[Camerous]

3DMax is also a good one. Nice choice Scream.

[Kiksar]

Yeah, no real reason not to do pre-vis in whatever 3D package you're most comfortable with.

As far as engines/editors go, you'll get pretty mixed opinions but I've always found Unreal to be the easiest and most complete overall toolset to learn (doesn't mean it's the best engine or anywhere near perfect as an editor, it's just got most the bases covered). Hammer (Half-Life 2) is pretty solid for doing non-organic interiors, and CryEngine 2 is great for making outdoor areas (terrain and islands). Editors generally do best with whatever the games they belong to do best.

You'll get even more divided opinions about 3D packages. 3DS Max and Maya are the main two industry standards, but I can't stand modeling in either. It's often very much about what you learn first, and it's usually easiest to learn something that you can get help from someone in person with. So if you're planning on learning 3D, I'd say go with whatever you have the best local resources for (make friends with someone who knows what they're doing).

That was sort of a tangent, but it relates well enough to level design!

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by Kiksar

You'll get even more divided opinions about 3D packages. 3DS Max and Maya are the main two industry standards, but I can't stand modeling in either.

Still using Modo? I forced myself to make an asset a day in Modo for about a month and while I love how intuitive it is, I just can't get the depth with things like wire parameters that I need for my non-real time work.

[Kiksar]

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

Still using Modo? I forced myself to make an asset a day in Modo for about a month and while I love how intuitive it is, I just can't get the depth with things like wire parameters that I need for my non-real time work.

Yup, Modo's all about setting it up so it doesn't work like Modo though. I can't do a thing in it with default preferences. It's tool system is awesome though, so easy to make it unique for how you do things once you get the hang of it. You even have easy access to customizing what mouse clicks do.

What do you use wire parameters for? I only know of them vaguely, isn't it a sort of a set driven key where you control parameters of one object with another, or am I stupid?

Unfortunately there isn't much about Modo that makes sense to me outside of modeling in it. 401 looks to have rendering capabilities that match or exceed Vray (which I've messed with a bit lately), but rendering in it makes no intuitive sense to me so I'll have to learn it all from scratch. As a modeling program I still think it's the most solid out there, even with a few annoying drawbacks (I miss Maya's snapping system).

Sorry for the level design derail, we can make a modeling thread if anyone's annoyed. No art forum though so we have to bleed on other forums.

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by Kiksar

What do you use wire parameters for? I only know of them vaguely, isn't it a sort of a set driven key where you control parameters of one object with another, or am I stupid?

No that's pretty close. I do a ton of product and scientific visualization along with the real time work and so having a system that allows me to change a thousand parameters by just moving a dummy object is beyond useful. I don't even know if Modo has that capability or not. To me it was just a interesting modeler.

Originally Posted by Kiksar

401 looks to have rendering capabilities that match or exceed Vray (which I've messed with a bit lately), but rendering in it makes no intuitive sense to me so I'll have to learn it all from scratch.

Once you get into Vray, it's really really hard to go back to anything else. Some of the more specialty renderers, like Maxwell and Brazil, are interesting, but imho, nothing compares to the sheer power that Vray gives you in both lighting, and materials.

[Kiksar]

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

No that's pretty close. I do a ton of product and scientific visualization along with the real time work and so having a system that allows me to change a thousand parameters by just moving a dummy object is beyond useful. I don't even know if Modo has that capability or not. To me it was just a interesting modeler.

Yeah Modo's slowly getting to that stuff, they're adding some fairly useful baseline animations stuff in 401, will be fun to play with, but it's still nowhere near as complete a package as Max or Maya. I'm just routing for them harder than ever now that Autodesk got all monopoly hungry. I was so sad when XSI sold.

Originally Posted by Screamfeeder

Once you get into Vray, it's really really hard to go back to anything else. Some of the more specialty renderers, like Maxwell and Brazil, are interesting, but imho, nothing compares to the sheer power that Vray gives you in both lighting, and materials.

I like vray too, but I'd like to be able to render and model in the same program, and the preset system they're adding in Modo 401 looks awesome.

If you're bored check some of this out Luxology > modo 401 Partially Revealed: Introduction

They're slowly building, and even with the occasional wonky stuff I'm starting to see vray or better quality renders done in Modo. Plus did I mention that presets look awesome, because they do!

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by Kiksar

I like vray too, but I'd like to be able to render and model in the same program

Join the Autodesk Collective Kiksar. It is inevitable.