RPG Characters

[Cloud9_]

Previously in a thread there were talks about having characters that advance not based on level, or necessarily skill, but more on stats. I thought it was an interesting concept and something I had not really thought about before, so I am just seeing what I could do by making a character class that advances based on their stats in an very basic XNA project.

So far, Its actually a pretty interesting concept the way its laying itself out. I currently have;

STR: Raw Attack Power
STA: Health + Regen
AGI: Run Speed + Dodge
DEX: Crit + hit percent
WIS: Magic Regen + Magic hit percent
INT: Mana + Magic Power

MaxHealth: Characters Base Health + (STA * 3)
MaxMana: Characters Base Mana + (Int * 3)

Health Regen Per Tick: Sta / 10
Mana Regen Per Tick: Wis / 10

And the only way to really advance your character is by getting items to increase your stats. Could be an interesting way of going about things, but again I'm just playing What would you guys think about various stats?

[Camerous]

The only bad thing about this is you are making yet another equipment oriented game. The current market is saturated with them. I enjoy them but I think the purpose of this was to stretch our horizons?

[Cloud9_]

Nah im just testing out ideas to kinda play around.

Just wanted to know different ideas and what not. i think the current mold of RPGs (mostly level based) is good, but could it be expanded on.. Just something to think about.

[Grave]

A system like that could potentially work, but we would have to know more about the gameplay. For example, would the stats effect what abilities the character had as well?

I'm trying to think of this in Ultima Online terms, although that game had skills to govern what abilities one had for the most part.

If raising your stats to certain levels unlocked different abilities, I think it would be a viable system. Say, someone wanting to create a Mage archtype would obviously raise his INT greatly, and the further he went he unlocked access to more powerful spells.

You would have to be extremely careful with itemization however to prevent the return of the Tank Mage from UO, or other godlike character builds.

[AladainAF]

STR: Physical Attack Power + 25% of physical defense
STA: Health + 50% physical defense
AGI: Dodge + Weapon Speed + 75% Stun/knockdown recovery speed + 25% physical defense
DEX: Physical Crit Chance + Physical hit percent + Magic hit percent
WIS: Magic Defense + Magic Critical Chance
INT: Mana + Magic Power
ENH: Mana Regen, HP Regen, 25% Stun/Knockdown recovery, Run Speed, Haste, Effectiveness of heals and buffs on you and others

I changed some of the above to me more balanced and added ENH or Enhancement stat (at least in my opinion, take it as you may). And BTW, awesome idea indeed. Here are some thoughts on skills, spells (just brainstorming some ideas):

Have a attack skill/spell based system where certain spells and skills are earned automatically based upon what your stats/non-attack skills are, yet are also taken away automatically with the lack of the equipment or skills.

For example, at the start you have no equipment at all, and thus no special skills nor spells. As you get equipment you start developing skills and spells, some of which have multiple requirements for. For example, lets say Cure 1 has a requirement of 5 ENH, Cure 2 has requirement of 7 ENH, but Cure 3 might require 12 ENH, 7 INT, and 5 WIS. Therefore you're required to carry specific equipment based upon what you want to cast, etc. You can also carry restrictions such as not being allowed to change equipment except at certain times, or have a cooldown on a per-item change.

Complex, but workable.

[Fogel]

having to carry around and swap equipment to use various abilities sounds tedious.

[Cloud9_]

Originally Posted by Fogel

having to carry around and swap equipment to use various abilities sounds tedious.

yeah, that would be the downfall of a system like that, but I'm sure there are ways to limit the need to have 30 suits of items for specific encounters / areas of your game.

I originally thought of a hybrid between a tactics style Job system and a Legend of Mana style skill system, where once you know the skill you could equip specific skills based on what job you are

[Grave]

It might work better to put soft caps on the stats based on how often you do certain things.

For example, if you cast spells mainly while grouping it would raise the soft cap of your intellect higher than that of a melee fighter. So, while items are still the only way to raise your stats, your int could be raised higher than that melee guy.

This way, people wouldn't necessarily feel like they had to carry around sets and be every class at once, you could have specific archtypes, it would just be a bit more free than most games. I might want to be an Archer/Mage type character and thus would be looking at DEX/AGI/INT/ENH as my main caps I want as high as possible. I would still find other stats like STA and WIS attractive on my gear, but my caps wouldn't be as high as another archtype so classes would still become somewhat defined.

This would also require you to cap the overall stats though, to ensure someone couldn't raise all of their stat caps to max.

[Believe]

What other option is there to non-gear based in a Fantasy-ish genre?

Not saying there isn't but I'd like to hear some good alternatives.


Another cool idea would to eliminate levels and make player power completely based on gear. Would be a hard game to balance, but could be fun.

This could work decently with a skill system. Just make it so as you gain skill points, it requires more exp to gain the next skill point. Although I'm sure people just call themselves a "32" Knight if they had 32 points in that skill tree, the game still technically wouldn't have levels.

[Froofy-D]

The stats systems that are the most elegant imho are the Fallout : SPECIAL system and the Shadowrun system. Both have:

Base Stats: Str, Dex, Con, Int, etc...
Derived Stats : calculated by combinations of base stats

So, just as an example, if you had base stats of STR, CON, AGIL, INT, WIS you could have derived stats something like:

Melee Hit: derived from STR + AGIL + INT. Because: STR = armor penetration, AGI = quicker strikes, PE = ability to anticipate opponent.

Melee Power: STR + AGIL. STR = raw power, AGIL = precision strike.

Ranged Hit: based on AGIL + INT. AGIL = precision and quickness, INT = ability to anticipate opponent.

Armor Class CON + AGIL + INT. CON = shrug off damage, AGIL = dodge, INT = anticpate opponents move

A derived stat system makes it so that more stats matter to each class, thus there is a bit more depth to character creation and gear selection.

You can also make more stats matter by giving resist bonuses for different stats:

Snare/Slow Resist: STR and AGIL
Charm/Illusion/Sleep/Mez/etc...: WIS + INT
Poison: CON
etc....

[Believe]

That actually sounds like a pretty kick ass system.

It would still be pretty gear dependent, but it would make people focus on more than 2 stats.

[Cloud9_]

Originally Posted by Froofy-D

The stats systems that are the most elegant imho are the Fallout : SPECIAL system and the Shadowrun system. Both have:

Base Stats: Str, Dex, Con, Int, etc...
Derived Stats : calculated by combinations of base stats

So, just as an example, if you had base stats of STR, CON, AGIL, INT, WIS you could have derived stats something like:

Melee Hit: derived from STR + AGIL + INT. Because: STR = armor penetration, AGI = quicker strikes, PE = ability to anticipate opponent.

Melee Power: STR + AGIL. STR = raw power, AGIL = precision strike.

Ranged Hit: based on AGIL + INT. AGIL = precision and quickness, INT = ability to anticipate opponent.

Armor Class CON + AGIL + INT. CON = shrug off damage, AGIL = dodge, INT = anticpate opponents move

A derived stat system makes it so that more stats matter to each class, thus there is a bit more depth to character creation and gear selection.

You can also make more stats matter by giving resist bonuses for different stats:

Snare/Slow Resist: STR and AGIL
Charm/Illusion/Sleep/Mez/etc...: WIS + INT
Poison: CON
etc....

Thats actually what i've been playing around with hah So far its fun testing some of this out

[Chrisb3]

Needs more Materia slots please. Pure stats is boring.

Also reward both balanced and stacked stats. So I can make a balanced character, or stack agility and run around fast

[AladainAF]

Originally Posted by Fogel

having to carry around and swap equipment to use various abilities sounds tedious.

True, and perhaps I should have addressed that.

Basically, the idea would be like guildwars - where you would set your equipment, and such and then start mission, and don't do gear swaps during the missions.

Alternatively, you could have a system where killing mobs or whatever while said equipment is on slowly learns your skills, and then once you have learned the skill, its with you permanently. Kinda goes back to the leveling philosophy with that one though.

[AngryGerbil]

Originally Posted by AladainAF

Alternatively, you could have a system where killing mobs or whatever while said equipment is on slowly learns your skills, and then once you have learned the skill, its with you permanently. Kinda goes back to the leveling philosophy with that one though.

Didn't one of the FF's do this?

God, I can't remember which one....but it involved yellow stars... Maybe it was Wild Arms?






Fuck, can't remember.