Player Housing

[Rotanee]

Is a player driven community in that sense more a role play idea? What I mean is not integral to actual game mechanics in some sense. Not saying it is good or bad. I am just drawing a distinction for people to consider.

I do remember in SWG for the most part player housing was more a thing to look at. It was a pain shopping for items at all the player houses, shops, because you had to run all over and check to see what was there to compare prices, etc. Got old really fast.

Guild halls, housing, in SWG were more functional because it gave people a base of operations to meet up with each other, store items to share easily, production facilities to use. It made sense to the game.

FFXI had the instanced housing you didn't really walk around in. Not a community type thing when I played at all. It was nice in part because it did have an added function for game play: the growing of plants and so on to get items. It was a unique but somewhat fun concept for crafting oriented people.

[Mist]

Unless player owned buildings have some tangible purpose to the game's economy I don't see why this would be a primary feature, or a feature at all. The whole game should really be kept as simple as possible.

[Linbog]

Originally Posted by Mist

Unless player owned buildings have some tangible purpose to the game's economy I don't see why this would be a primary feature, or a feature at all. The whole game should really be kept as simple as possible.

I agree, until all the basic mechanics are down I think housing on anything more than a wishlist is reaching too far.

That said I really like housing, no I'm not one to put pink polka-dots on stuff but I am the kind of person who would go look at the persons house that did so I could know what kind of ballerina fruit-cake decided to.

I liked DaoCs housing, its not totally fre-form like SWG or UO but its still not instanced allowing for exterior retail space and some pride for your mark on the world.

[Khorum]

The whole 'cosmetic-only' version of player-owned property is supposed to be harmless fluff by definition, and noone really NEEDS it. I was talking more in terms of Shadowbane-class player equity that is central to the economy and progression of the game. For my part, I'm not really thinking of an pure RPG at all really, something in-between.

The mmog concept i've been daydreaming about since our guild left shadowbane was an attempt to address a major gripe about shadowbane's core gameplay (and thus EVE's): how only a handful of people in the whole playerbase got to participate in the macro-scale grand strategy aspect of the game. Everyone else has been a grunt watching spoiled trust-fund dormroom shut-ins change the course of the universe.

My answer is an Fantasy-XCOM/MMORPG hybrid, a skirmish-scale RPG/wargame (PNP equivalents would be Advanced Squad Leader or GW's Necromunda/Confrontation) where the player has no personal avatar but instead has a 'stable' of characters from which to draw his squad/warband. A typical player would go into battle with 4 to 6 characters, they all gain experience, skills and have their own equipment. Your individual characters get old, retire, have children and death is permanent. Of course the actual player isn't represented by ONE character, your avatar is the COMMUNITY of your characters, the leaders, soldiers, craftsmen and farmers that form your fiefdom. (think XCOM bases). And to work, feed, clothe and arm your community, you need to build/conquer/lease your own property. And while a large proportion of the player's time and progression will be gained via battle, I love the EVE concept of offline training and a LARGE proportion of your player-owned property will barracks/stables/libraries wherein you can lodge your characters to train their skills.

All this centers around your player-owned property though, where all your armor and weapons are made and where artisans and wizards can research upgrades. The player can decide to be a bandit gang and stake out a ruin in the wilderness to live in and raid out of or swear fealty to a nation/alliance and build and maintain his own keep. If his keep expands or he has other players working with him they can build a city, where each player manages his own economy of farmers, engineers, blacksmiths, soldiers, trainers, priests and sorcerers. Much like a feudal society, the overall national/imperial politics remains sweeping and overarching but each player's stakes in it are more immediate and observable.

[Tuco]

Would prefer static houses and instanced houses. Static houses would be given to guilds/players that deserved it (And not by spending ridiculous amounts of money on them) and instanced would be relatively easy to obtain.

[Faille]

Originally Posted by Mist

Unless player owned buildings have some tangible purpose to the game's economy I don't see why this would be a primary feature, or a feature at all. The whole game should really be kept as simple as possible.

Feel free to start working on that.

[Clericnon2boxed]

Originally Posted by James

I always wondered what the fuck the point of player housing was. Seems to me like a dead concept, and one that is not exactly easily implemented. Guild housing, sure, I can see a need for that -- complete with guild bank, guild supplies, etc, etc. Waiting for an MMO to get THAT one right. But player housing seems kinda pointless and stupid. Who wants to play an MMO with some dipshit concerned about the color of the polka dotted curtains in his or her made up fantasy house.

I had the urge to draw something related

[Ssinurn]

I have yet to see a game that allows non instanced not have cluttered up zones, but I really don't mind either approach.

In AO the housing is instanced, but the player cities which are useful are fairly cut and paste affairs with limited world plots making them valuable.

As far as making player housing useful, I think there are a lot of ideas out there that could be done but by the time a game is this mature its on its way out (5 year plus mark). It would be cool to have a game release with viable guild housing.

I liked FFXI's approach of your house giving minimal player bonuses (more exp returned on death etc, small stat bonuses) by having certain housing items on display. Also a mannequin of your chosen player model displaying a set of gear, and a place to grow plants that could return any number of tradeskill items based on a ton of variables + luck.

[Zarcath]

I'm not a big fan instanced housing because only you and people you invite will be able to see it.

What I liked about SWG housing is that anyone could come in and see what you've accomplished. I've always believed trophies to be a good way to drive players to accomplishments and it creates a nice secondary market. Also a good way to show off your products if you're a vendor.

I think a mix of both. "low income" housing being instanced apartment buildings, and as you move up you can eventually own a real non-instanced house. Ideally I'd like to see players able to meta-game real estate.

[Ssinurn]

Agree on the mix. Although you can still allow people to come in for instanced. In EQ2 you can go in anyone's place. It had permissions so you could let some folks move furniture, or just come in and browse.

Default is coming in to browse. I would go into people's houses all the time.

[Cascow]

I vote for the non-instanced route. But I will agree with James here, I haven't seen the point of player housing since UO.

I'd focus on Guild Towers/Castles/Shanties (both player guild and NPC guilds) and ignore the fuck out of personal player houses.

[Faille]

Originally Posted by Ssinurn

Agree on the mix. Although you can still allow people to come in for instanced. In EQ2 you can go in anyone's place. It had permissions so you could let some folks move furniture, or just come in and browse.

Default is coming in to browse. I would go into people's houses all the time.

Stalker!

[Faille]

Originally Posted by Cascow

I vote for the non-instanced route. But I will agree with James here, I haven't seen the point of player housing since UO.

I'd focus on Guild Towers/Castles/Shanties (both player guild and NPC guilds) and ignore the fuck out of personal player houses.

Other then fluff, its hard to think of good reasons to include player housing that isn't contrived.

Anyone happen to know some?

Also what sort of features should be included in Guild Hall type setups?

[Veng]

Granted, my experience with MMO's that had player housing is limited to SWG (and NWN, but that doesn't really count as a "Massively Multiplayer" I guess), but it's player housing / city system was amazing. If you wanted to go the static house model, I'd definitely look into the SWG system.

I don't really have any good SS's left of the cities we made, but if PvP is going to be a central part of the game, nothing in WoW has come close to fostering the PvP atmosphere that SWG captured with player cities.

Guild halls were primarily places for storage, but there was also a central console that was used to add / promote guild members, request a "war" with another guild, and probably some other stuff I am forgetting. In addition, many people would use their guild halls as a central hub for crafting stations / vendors since they were much larger than the largest crafted house and thus held more stuff.

[Cascow]

Originally Posted by Faille

Also what sort of features should be included in Guild Hall type setups?

Just some random thoughts while I'm sitting at work, refusing to actually do my job...

Think back to EQ1. You first zoned into the game and got that little note inviting you to join (x)"guild". You handed in your note and got 1/2345634 of a tick of xp and some crappy chest piece. Now imagine if handing in that note actually did something. You do the pre-amble (a la Vanguard or LotR) to gain acceptance from the NPC guild, and upon entering the world you are invited to join up with whatever faction the pre-amble was aimed at (perhaps a small quick quest off the start also to get familiar with the new area).

The way I see it is that MMO's are essentially a social environment. Throw players into that environment right off the start. It would give people a place to chat (that wasn't general channels), introduce people together and give new players a forum in which to ask class specific questions (that wasn't general channels). As the players progess they will of course start forming player guilds, but off the start they would get a healthy dose of community involvement.

In terms of actual features:
- ease of generalized travel (EQ1)
- needed guild stuff (casting reagants, supplies, etc.)
- guild bank!!!
- personal bank
- some kind of bonus to tradeskills (thinking along a journeyman/apprentice line here, I dunno)
- trainers with the spells/skills that they can train

I guess I'll put some more detailed thought into this as the day goes by, but my boss is kind of looking over at me and wondering why I haven't done anything today but drink coffee and go for smoke breaks.