2009 NFL Top 10 Quarterbacks

[Genjiro]

Originally Posted by psu199

Agree. Ben doesn't have the quick release like Brady/Manning, but so few do. With that said, I remember the Steelers/Eagles week 3 matchup in 08. Fuck if we didn't put pressure on Ben from every angle. He had no time that whole game.

Yea thats the most brutal beatdown I've ever seen a QB take watching football. He was hit or sacked 20 times in that one game (9 sacks iirc), I'll never forget that stat because it was so hard to even believe when I heard it. It was like he was a giant piece of bleeding meat dangling over great white infested waters. I seriously wanted them to pull him out in the 4th quarter so he wouldn't get fucked up for the rest of the season. Once the Eagles saw we couldnt block them, it was blitzfest every down. That's part of the reason I was praying AZ beat you guys in the NFC ccg, we would have lost to you guys in the SB most likely.

And also, not like we were beating you guys that game anyways. We havent won a game in Philly since like 1965 or some shit. Its a pretty impressive streak of failure playing at your guys place.

[arkk123]

Originally Posted by psu199

I was quoting you the first time =/

And yes I've been in LA for 2 years, I lived just outside Philly for the rest of my life. I still listen to WIP on the internet, am a regular at Bleeding Green and The 700 Level. I don't need to walk down South Street to know how Eagles fans generally feel.

I don't deny that many many fans dislike Mcnabb. I just think those fans have short memories, and generally reflect the worst elements of the Eagles fan base. They're far too critical of a guy who has legitimately been one of the top QBs in the NFL over the last 10 years.

I also think the vast majority of fans like and support Mcnabb. I obviously can't quantify it, but I bet if you did a poll it would be 80-90% supported him. It's just that other 10-20% tend to be loud and vocal.

Oh wait, I took 30 seconds and just proved my point. Taken from Philly.com:

Lol you did get me there. Touche. I post 80% of the time from my phone so I miss little things like that and old convos etc.

When I used it though I meant how people outside of the city have opinions on the eagles and so forth, but you don't live here. A la Peter King, etc etc.

I've lived in Philly my entire life. 75% of my friends dislike McNabb. A few feel just like you, and I get that, its fine. Lately even black callers(the normal lone mcnabb supporters, mostly at least...before it was 50/50, now its like 75/25) on WIP are jumping onto the Vick bandwagon because they believe they finally have a legit option to go to. People loved when Feeley did well, and went ape shit over Garcia because he was a legit backup for Mcnabb.

[arkk123]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Philly fans boo fucking Santa Claus. Fuck them. They don't deserve McNabb.

Oh god eat my fucking dick. I was in Dallas for a game a few years back. You have the biggest clusterfuck of fraud fans I've ever experienced at an away game, all clumped into a barren wasteland of a city. Even in a losing effort, no one said shit to us the entire game as we were admittedly being assholes. Not even good hearted ribbing. The fans aren't even loud. It is just an awful place to spend money to go to.

Keep dreamin. Romo is a homo.

[BurnemWizfyre]

Originally Posted by arkk123

Oh god eat my fucking dick. I was in Dallas for a game a few years back. You have the biggest clusterfuck of fraud fans I've ever experienced at an away game, all clumped into a barren wasteland of a city. Even in a losing effort, no one said shit to us the entire game as we were admittedly being assholes. Not even good hearted ribbing. The fans aren't even loud. It is just an awful place to spend money to go to.

Keep dreamin. Romo is a homo.

Romo will see a Super Bowl ring before the city of Philadelphia ever does.

[arkk123]

Originally Posted by BurnemWizfyre

Romo will see a Super Bowl ring before the city of Philadelphia ever does.

Romo is good at golf, that is about it.

[psu199]

I've lived in Philly my entire life. 75% of my friends dislike McNabb. A few feel just like you, and I get that, its fine. Lately even black callers(the normal lone mcnabb supporters, mostly at least...before it was 50/50, now its like 75/25) on WIP are jumping onto the Vick bandwagon because they believe they finally have a legit option to go to. People loved when Feeley did well, and went ape shit over Garcia because he was a legit backup for Mcnabb.

See this just confuses me more than anything. Do people really think Vick is a legitimate improvement over Mcnabb? Those 75% of your friends, do they know anything about football? (And I'm not asking this to be a dick, I literally can't fathom how anyone would believe Vick to be an upgrade.) I mean even in his prime Vick was a mediocre QB who needed an entire offensive system built around his unique skill set. The Eagles do not have that system in place, AND he's been away from the game for two years.

A.J. Feeley? Played solidly as a starter for 5 games in 2002 for a team with a very good defense. 56% completion, 7 TDs 6 Ints? You really thought that was a long term solution? So did the Dolphins, how did that work out for them?

Garcia I can't totally disagree with, because I actually think his style of play (i.e. more accurate on the short and medium stuff) was built for that Eagles team a little bit better than Mcnabb's. With that said, he royally shit the bed against the Saints, costing us the playoffs. Missed a few wide open receivers in the 2nd half, and had a really horrible fumble if I remember correctly. Also, the dude is what, 39? Not a long term solution.

Again, I'm fine with people pointing out Mcnabb's flaws. I know he's not perfect or anything. But I just think the alternatives that get thrown about are laughable to anyone with a good sense of the game.

[BurnemWizfyre]

Originally Posted by psu199

See this just confuses me more than anything. Do people really think Vick is a legitimate improvement over Mcnabb? Those 75% of your friends, do they know anything about football? (And I'm not asking this to be a dick, I literally can't fathom how anyone would believe Vick to be an upgrade.) I mean even in his prime Vick was a mediocre QB who needed an entire offensive system built around his unique skill set. The Eagles do not have that system in place, AND he's been away from the game for two years.

A.J. Feeley? Played solidly as a starter for 5 games in 2002 for a team with a very good defense. 56% completion, 7 TDs 6 Ints? You really thought that was a long term solution? So did the Dolphins, how did that work out for them?

Garcia I can't totally disagree with, because I actually think his style of play (i.e. more accurate on the short and medium stuff) was built for that Eagles team a little bit better than Mcnabb's. With that said, he royally shit the bed against the Saints, costing us the playoffs. Missed a few wide open receivers in the 2nd half, and had a really horrible fumble if I remember correctly. Also, the dude is what, 39? Not a long term solution.

Again, I'm fine with people pointing out Mcnabb's flaws. I know he's not perfect or anything. But I just think the alternatives that get thrown about are laughable to anyone with a good sense of the game.

Philly fans are stupid, but hey at least they are loud right?

[psu199]

I can't tell if you're calling me stupid or loud. Either way I'm highly offended.

[arkk123]

Originally Posted by psu199

See this just confuses me more than anything. Do people really think Vick is a legitimate improvement over Mcnabb? Those 75% of your friends, do they know anything about football? (And I'm not asking this to be a dick, I literally can't fathom how anyone would believe Vick to be an upgrade.) I mean even in his prime Vick was a mediocre QB who needed an entire offensive system built around his unique skill set. The Eagles do not have that system in place, AND he's been away from the game for two years.

A.J. Feeley? Played solidly as a starter for 5 games in 2002 for a team with a very good defense. 56% completion, 7 TDs 6 Ints? You really thought that was a long term solution? So did the Dolphins, how did that work out for them?

Garcia I can't totally disagree with, because I actually think his style of play (i.e. more accurate on the short and medium stuff) was built for that Eagles team a little bit better than Mcnabb's. With that said, he royally shit the bed against the Saints, costing us the playoffs. Missed a few wide open receivers in the 2nd half, and had a really horrible fumble if I remember correctly. Also, the dude is what, 39? Not a long term solution.

Again, I'm fine with people pointing out Mcnabb's flaws. I know he's not perfect or anything. But I just think the alternatives that get thrown about are laughable to anyone with a good sense of the game.

It is because people DON'T LIKE HIM. I didn't say they said he was a shitty quarterback(unless me saying he sucks and won't win anything has you thinking that). He is a whiny little pussy and will never earn the respect of the fans after all the shit he has pulled. People in town want heart, not stats.

It isn't like he is winning MVP's and super bowls and you look at it like "Hey, he is a fucking jerkoff but he wins games".

I don't care about his stats. Dan Marino held like every major passing record, do you think he wouldn't turn that all in for a ring?

edit: There has obviously been no better alternative since he was drafted. That doesn't mean people have to like him as a person. But if you are going to say/do the things he does, coupled by an arrogant coach and management, it is a recipe for disaster.

This has all been magnified in the past 3 years because across the street there is a franchise who wins, is likable and caters to their fan base.

[psu199]

I'm fine with judging him by the fact that he hasn't won a ring, but you named 3 replacements that supposedly people prefer who haven't won rings either, AND they don't have anything near the level of success (statistically or actually winning games) that Mcnabb has had. How many QBs have won rings in the past 10 years since Mcnabb was drafted? 4? 5? Are the rest total failures?

If you don't like the guy's personality, that's one thing and I suppose I can't debate it because it's just a preference thing. But Philly has a bad habit of running their sports stars out of town for the wrong reasons, and because 10% of the fan base thinks he's a "whiny little pussy" seems like one of those wrong reasons. Go back and look at that poll on Philly.com. That was taken before 09 training camp. 89% of Avid fans positive, 9% neutral, 3% negative. Like I said before, we've got a very loud and vocal minority who seem to dominate the airwaves. And you seem to have bought into their bullshit.

Edit: Sorry everyone else, I'll stop shitting up this thread with Mcnabb stuff. For the record:

1) Brady
2) Manning
3) Brees
4) Mcnabb
5) Rothlisburger
6) Rodgers
7) Rivers
8) Cutler
9) Romo

[arkk123]

Originally Posted by psu199

I'm fine with judging him by the fact that he hasn't won a ring, but you named 3 replacements that supposedly people prefer who haven't won rings either, AND they don't have anything near the level of success (statistically or actually winning games) that Mcnabb has had. How many QBs have won rings in the past 10 years since Mcnabb was drafted? 4? 5? Are the rest total failures?

If you don't like the guy's personality, that's one thing and I suppose I can't debate it because it's just a preference thing. But Philly has a bad habit of running their sports stars out of town for the wrong reasons, and because 10% of the fan base thinks he's a "whiny little pussy" seems like one of those wrong reasons. Go back and look at that poll on Philly.com. That was taken before 09 training camp. 89% of Avid fans positive, 9% neutral, 3% negative. Like I said before, we've got a very loud and vocal minority who seem to dominate the airwaves. And you seem to have bought into their bullshit.

Your figures in terms of ratios are asinine man, sorry. They just are. They DO NOT represent the feelings of people in the city. You don't even live here. Shit when you lived here you didn't even live here, you lived outside the city.

My point is that if people are willing to part with Mcnabb for any of those 3 people, what does that say about him?

And no city runs any sports figures out of town. Unfortunately we don't have that power. This conversation will be completely different by week 8, or whenever the first choke job comes.

[psu199]

Ok last post for the night I promise!

Your figures in terms of ratios are asinine man, sorry. They just are. They DO NOT represent the feelings of people in the city. You don't even live here. Shit when you lived here you didn't even live here, you lived outside the city.

My point is that if people are willing to part with Mcnabb for any of those 3 people, what does that say about him?

I just don't understand your argument at this point. Those "asinine" figures and ratios aren't being pulled out of my ass, those are 3rd party numbers polled from season ticket holders (do they count as fans?) and self described (a little arbitrary I suppose) "Avid Fans."

It seems like your opinion of the public is based on pretty spurious data, which seems to be comprised entirely of conversations with friends and listening to WIP callers. And if those people were willing to part with Mcnabb for Feely, Garcia, or Vick then that tells me a lot more about them as fans (i.e. they really don't know shit about football) than it tells me anything about Mcnabb.

Finally, you're 100% correct, I don't live in Center City, and I never have! But how does that impact my ability to watch games? How does it impact my ability to listen to WIP, read Eagles blogs and watch press conferences? You keep bringing up the fact that you live in Philly and you always have, and I'm just not sure how that helps your argument. If anything it might be skewing your perception. Those people who are most anti Mcnabb are unarguably the most vocal.

[arkk123]

Originally Posted by psu199

Ok last post for the night I promise!



I just don't understand your argument at this point. Those "asinine" figures and ratios aren't being pulled out of my ass, those are 3rd party numbers polled from season ticket holders (do they count as fans?) and self described (a little arbitrary I suppose) "Avid Fans."

It seems like your opinion of the public is based on pretty spurious data, which seems to be comprised entirely of conversations with friends and listening to WIP callers. And if those people were willing to part with Mcnabb for Feely, Garcia, or Vick then that tells me a lot more about them as fans (i.e. they really don't know shit about football) than it tells me anything about Mcnabb.

Dude I live here. I go out for the games, I've been to games, I am friends with people who do both. The large majority of fans that I know, peopel who are die hard eagles fans who lived in philadelphia their entire life do not like mcnabb. I don't care if he throws 60 fucking touchdowns, people do not like him as a person, that is my entire point.

If I conduct a poll and the #'s show up different, who is right? Eagles fans will follow ANYTHING as long as they are winning, ie: Their delusion that Vick will bring them a ring. It isn't Mcnabb, it is hope.

They don't have to like him or dislike him, either personally or professionally. fact of the matter is, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the large majority of human beings that I know do not like donovan mcnabb. period.

why is this such a big discussion? they aren't going to win shit this year regardless. the o line is a mess, shaun andrews career is done, the defense is mediocre at best, jim johnson is gone, vicks inclusion will cause a rift amongst the team and an unhappy mcnabb.

I believe the owner of the patriots said it the best when he stated that he has the best player in the world at QB (brady), so why would he want vick? If the Eagles as a whole are so happy with Donny Mac, why do they bring in Vick? For his whopping 5 plays a game? No, because they know that he doesn't have what it takes too. The wildcat is just a risk free tactic to bring in a ring. Give mcnabb 2-3 bad games and they wil be screaming for vick, and this will be like when TO was here all over again. He has a 2 year window and hes gone.

I'm done bringing mcnabbs faggotry to this thread.

arkk out

PEACE

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by arkk123

Oh god eat my fucking dick. I was in Dallas for a game a few years back. You have the biggest clusterfuck of fraud fans I've ever experienced at an away game, all clumped into a barren wasteland of a city. Even in a losing effort, no one said shit to us the entire game as we were admittedly being assholes. Not even good hearted ribbing. The fans aren't even loud. It is just an awful place to spend money to go to.

Keep dreamin. Romo is a homo.

Umm, wrong city. I'm not a Dallas fan and I think Romo is overrated as well...

[Jozu]

Originally Posted by arkk123

Romo is good at golf, that is about it.

Watch for Romo to have a monster year this year. Every time T.O. leaves a team the QB goes nuts. Jason Witten is probably going to catch more than 100 balls this year.

And Genjiro, did you say, in so many words that Ben would be just as an effective passer with the Saints O-line? Your saying Ben would throw for 5000+ yards?

And Brees is more mobile than you think. The guy has made plays outside of the pocket, in fact, I would say he is almost as accurate outside the pocket as he is inside of it. Look that shit up.

Im not hating on Ben, the guy is a game manager, with the knack for making huge plays in crunch time. You cant really ask for more than that. Yeah, having someone like Brees or Brady is nice for your fantasy team, but having a guy like Ben on your team instantly increases the chance of your team winning a game solely based off of what he does in the 4th quarter.