2009 NFL Season Discussion

[Genjiro]

Didn't they draft Malcom Kelly? Is he a bust or what, I've never heard of him doing shit.

[BurnemWizfyre]

Take a look at the stats between the two last year, You will notice the stats are very close to each other. I guess someone will say oh my god you cant compare the positions, but last i checked the typical 3-4 NT is a big fat fucker thats supposed to just take up space yet he still got to the QB about the same as Haynesworth (1 less sack) had the same amount of tackles etc etc etc stats are almost identical.

Haynesworth is GOOD ill say it and ill say it again, HE IS GOOD and he was a GOOD sign. However to think he should have gotten paid what he was paid is silly, and thats what my criticism of the whole thing is about and it lead me to stupid comments that my own homerism has lead me to put my foot in my mouth. Honestly as a Cowboys fan i used to hate the Redskins, now i just dont give a shit about them and havent for quite some time and you can thank Daniel Snyder and Jason Campbell for that. However the only thing Snyder has going for him is he at least tried to get rid of Campbell in the off season.

[Moontayle]

I'm sort of with Burnem on this but purely as a football fan. Big Al has increased production along the line this year, that much is apparent. However, you don't give a guy that type of money just so everyone else can see an increase in their numbers. At least with the money Ware got, he got because he produced results AND his presence opened things up for other guys. Ratliff is a fucking NOSE TACKLE and he got 7.5 sacks last year. That's unheard of for an NT. He also opens things up for the MLBs. Bradie James lead MLBs in the league last year with 8 sacks. Both of these guys are better producers because of Ware. Oh, and he also happened to put up 20 sacks last year.

And just as a matter of course, at the press conference for Ware's extension he made a point of saying that he wanted a good contract that wasn't going to make it more difficult for the team to do something similar for other guys. He took less than he could have demanded. That's a teammate.

[Gilgamel]

Haynesworth is not defined by stats because of just what you said, he makes everyone else around him get more favorable matchups. He is also the NFL opposite of Tim Tebow. Whereas much of Tebow's value comes from the fact that any short yardage situation is essentially a gauranteed conversion, much of Albert's value comes in his ability to singlehandedly disrupt or even end short yardage plays by himself, even when double teamed. His impact on the Titans defense in the last six years was something like 16 points per game and 1.4 yards per carry compared to when he was not in the lineup. He is 350 lbs, explodes off the line, has excellent technique with his hands, and he is a mean son of a bitch who throws his body around with reckless abandon(to his own detriment). You cannot statistically evaluate him.

It's kind of like baseball before the math geeks invaded, when the metric generally used to evaluate fielders was number of errors, which we now know is an extremely flawed way to go about things. Haynesworth essentially removes the dive play or the sneak from the equation on short yardage, constantly keeps the center of the pocket pushed back(which allows your edge rushers to get to the QB without him moving up in the pocket), draws more attention than any other defender in the league, and makes two or three drive killing plays a game where he singlehandedly puts the offense off schedule.

This is not even to figure in the fact that he has knocked seven quarterbacks out of games in the last three years(going into this year), to the point where Matt Schaub's testicles used to physically retract before every game against the Titans.

Defensive tackle is simply not a statistic position. It's also a position where you face an organized opposition on every play and usually are outnumbered. A guy like James Harrison or Demarcus Ware is helped tremendously by how the 3-4 and the ability to disguise pressure often frees them up for unimpeded shots at the quarterback. Many other times those edge rushers face a confused blocking front where all that stands between them and the quarterback is a running back or tight end. I personally feel the 3-4 is a far superior scheme at the NFL level.

Statistics simply don't do them justice.

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by Moontayle

And just as a matter of course, at the press conference for Ware's extension he made a point of saying that he wanted a good contract that wasn't going to make it more difficult for the team to do something similar for other guys. He took less than he could have demanded. That's a teammate.

Ya he said something like, "I already have more money than I ever imagined making," before the extension was even completed. When add in the story of him and his wife adopting it is obvious he is just a really good person which is great to hear in a game full of players that are me, me, me, me.

[Jozu]

Originally Posted by BurnemWizfyre

Take a look at the stats between the two last year, You will notice the stats are very close to each other. I guess someone will say oh my god you cant compare the positions, but last i checked the typical 3-4 NT is a big fat fucker thats supposed to just take up space yet he still got to the QB about the same as Haynesworth (1 less sack) had the same amount of tackles etc etc etc stats are almost identical.

Are you an idiot?

Gilgamel pretty much summed it well, but god damn, Haynesworth's impact isnt recorded on the stat sheet, its realized during the game when he eats up 2-3 linemen by himself and disrupts coverage. Its realized when he single-handedly shuts down an opponents run game by filling all of the interior lanes.

Haynesowrth can create a pass rush OR stop the run, which is a hard thing to come by.

[Man0warr]

(is that clown up there seriously trying to say ratliff is better than haynesworth?)

Jay Ratliff is the best defensive player on the Cowboys this year.

Argument could be made for Brooking, but that's more to the tune of experience/leadership/accountability he brought that the Cowboys have sorely lacked in the locker room in previous years.

When you pay someone 41 mil guaranteed you expect them to transform your defense to the next level, and while Redskins defense is way better than its offense this year, that isn't really saying much.

[Gilgamel]

Yeah, I'm not trying to down Ratliff. He's a great player. He may even be an elite DT. He just doesn't bring the physical presence to the game that Albert does. I don't get to watch the Cowboys every week(just 4 out of 5 due to all their national games), but I don't see him as a guy who can take two linemen and shove them back into the quarterback's lap with pure strength. He is great at what he does though.

[Moontayle]

You could also make the argument that they simply didn't need to sign someone like Haynesworth because they were good last year. Number 4 defense. And they didn't really lose anyone worth mentioning, plus they added a really good DE through the draft. So far this year, the net gain just doesn't add up. More sacks, yes. Better production? Maybe. But again, they produced last year. I had fears of Haynesworth turning the 'Skins into the #1 defense but all they've done so far is stay the course. Currently sitting at the #5 defense. This is just another example of Snyder playing Fantasy Football.

[Gilgamel]

To be fair their offense was actually effective at times last year, and they started something like 6-2. The fact that they're on pace for a 50% increase in sacks when they've had few if any chances to simply pin their ears back and rush the passer because they are up and the other team has to throw is pretty telling. If you gave the Redskins the Colts or Chargers offense I'd wager their defensive numbers would be quite a bit better.

[Man0warr]

The Cowboys interior pass rush/pocket pushing is actually more important than the outside rushing this year, and rushing against them inside is basically non existent thanks to Ratliff.

Feel bad for the Redskins though, it's better when the entire NFC East is competitive.

[Goltana_R-Zek]

One of the closest comparisons to Albert Haynesworth imo is Kris Jenkins on the Jets - both dominating NT's, sucks now they're both injured for the year Jenkins is like 6'4'' 340, i think Haynesworth is 6'6'' 350 or so, both plug the gap in the run immensely and are almost always double teamed.

I think the patriots are starting to fly under the radar a bit for teams, maybe once they play the Saints people will start paying attention again, makes me worried. They're getting a lot of injured people back and haven't been hit too hard iirc by injuries overall.

[Foggy]

It is not really fair to Ratliff or Haynesworth to compare the two. They play in two different systems which requires much different skills sets. Also, Ratliff is probably the most unusual 3-4 NT in the game. Most are huge and just take up 2 blockers and don't move, like Casey Hampton who is considered probably the best 3-4 NT. Instead Ratliff is all about speed and being disruptive. It is unusual but it works.

They are both great players, Haynesworth is more of a force but Ratliff had an great season last year and is off to a great start this year.

[Cathan]

Originally Posted by Tea on tuesday

When good players leave the Bengals, I am happy for them. Maybe they can have some of the success they deserve.

QFMFT!!!!!!!!!!!

That is EXACTLY how I felt last year when Julius Peppers wanted to be traded after Jake got signed for a 5 year deal at over 40 million... Everyone knows Jake is NOT going to be the QB to get a superbowl win. Last year's Panthers was as good as it will ever get with Jake there. Playoffs are sudden death if you lose. You can't win it all with a guy that's guaranteed to tank somewhere along the playoff route.

I admire the hell out of Steve Smith for saying he's a Panther his whole career but I thought he should have left after Jake's extension also. The best players in the game deserve Superbowl Rings and it's just unfortunate so many won't ever get them because their teams suck.

Delhomme was good enough to win it all when Carolina played the big game against New England and would have if it weren't for John Kasey's 3 missed field goals. He hasn't been the same player since that year. Maybe the worst thing a QB can ever experience is losing the big game... Look at Warner this year, he's way off from what he was in the playoffs last year...

At least I got the Saints to be happy for since I'm here. It does suck ass my 2 favorite teams are in the same division though... Tomorrow's Saints/Panthers game I think I'm just gonna pray the Carolina D doesn't hurt Brees and hope for a good shootout. I'm anxious to see how Sharper and crew match up on Steve Smith. I'll be happy no matter who scores but this year... I really hope the Saints stay undefeated. A win for Carolina doesn't do much at this point...

[Edko]

Edko's Super System Trust Me I Already Paid the Refs Off Plays

Houston (+9) This will probably go to 9.5 or even 10 before it's said and done, the public loves Indy. And the public has been right alot so far. I think the 2nd half of the season is where things turn around. Houston can flat score with any team as long as Mr. Mountaineer doesn't fumble. I think Slaton comes back and runs very well against a soft Indy D. I would strongly consider a money line play here if the juice is cooperative.

Also, I will take the over 48 to the bank.

Steelers (-3) Broncos cannot stretch the field on offense, have 2 average RBS, and showed major vulnerabilities vs the Ravens. Pitt also never, ever loses on MNF. Broncos are not as good as their record by any stretch.

I like the over 38 (or 38.5 in some places) here.

49ers (-4) Sorry Tenn friends, fading Vince Young is gonna be cash money most games this year. 49ers are not the Jaguars, they play extremely hard and can stuff people. Tenn gets shredded by good TEs and the 9ers have one. I can't see Young stretching this D enough to make them vulnerable.

Arizona (+3) Bears sure looked good beating Cleveland, and the Cards sure looked like shit vs Carolina. Problem is, neither team is as good/bad as those games. The Cards are a better team, and they should win the game.

Chiefs, YES CHIEFS! (+6.5) Why not, the Jags suck as bad as the Chiefs, and Jamaal Charles is probably a better weapon than Larry the Gay. Gimme the points, I think Chiefs win here.

The Leaning Post:

Philly (-3)
Lions (+10)
Packers (-9.5)