2009 MLB Season

[Gilgamel]

The Yankees are the Yankees because of money. If they had the same financial capability Kansas City has they wouldn't be relevant. Boston and New York are not good because of their history, their tradition, their passionate fanbases, or any other happy fufu reasons you want to give. They are good because their sport is built upon a competitive imbalance that makes it impossible for small markets to legitimately compete and leads to the top tier free agents all migrating to a handful of wealthy teams. Even the fucking MLB draft is rigged so the best players are practically unattainable by most of the teams.

And yes, I know many of the smaller market owners have taken this situation as an opportunity to suppress their payroll and make as much money as possible. But that doesn't excuse the underlying imbalance that basically rigs the sport and renders 80% of the franchises noncompetitive. Baseball is a joke.

[arkk123]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

The Yankees are the Yankees because of money. If they had the same financial capability Kansas City has they wouldn't be relevant. Boston and New York are not good because of their history, their tradition, their passionate fanbases, or any other happy fufu reasons you want to give. They are good because their sport is built upon a competitive imbalance that makes it impossible for small markets to legitimately compete and leads to the top tier free agents all migrating to a handful of wealthy teams. Even the fucking MLB draft is rigged so the best players are practically unattainable by most of the teams.

And yes, I know many of the smaller market owners have taken this situation as an opportunity to suppress their payroll and make as much money as possible. But that doesn't excuse the underlying imbalance that basically rigs the sport and renders 80% of the franchises noncompetitive. Baseball is a joke.

I stopped reading at "Boston and New York are not good because of their history, their tradition, their passionate fanbases, or any other happy fufu reasons you want to give. "

[Gilgamel]

Well are they? Are you really going to sit here and tell me that the lore and legend of the Yankee pinstripes has more to do with your successful run than your 250 million dollar payroll?

If the Yankees were like most of baseball Rivera and Jeter would have left after their initial contracts and you'd really know what modern baseball is like. Give me a break.

Baseball has essentially turned itself into the WAC.

[arkk123]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

Well are they? Are you really going to sit here and tell me that the lore and legend of the Yankee pinstripes has more to do with your successful run than your 250 million dollar payroll?

If the Yankees were like most of baseball Rivera and Jeter would have left after their initial contracts and you'd really know what modern baseball is like. Give me a break.

Baseball has essentially turned itself into the WAC.

I'm honestly shocked you are serious.

Are you lashing out because the titans are horriawful?

[Gilgamel]

I'm lashing out because I hate this horseshit, and I see it becoming a possibility in the NFL. I couldn't even root for a team like the Yankees, you're like a ringer in the special Olympics. What possible satisfaction do you Boston/NY fans gain from rooting for that team? It would be like The Vols and Gators dropping the SEC to join the MAC and then bragging about how good we are and pretending our games are the only ones that matter because we crush our competition.

It also doesn't help that both Boston and New York's fanbase's are full of people who go on and on about tradition and history when their current incarnations are representative of everything wrong with modern sports. Hell, half the major steroid users are prominent members of one team or the other.

If the NFL worked like MLB the Colts wouldn't be enjoying lucking into Peyton Manning, they would be lamenting his loss to the Redskins or Giants because they couldn't afford to keep him.

What is remotely impressive to you about handpicking the best players from the rest of the major leagues, paying them far more than most other teams could, and then beating the leftovers?

If I was a New Yorker I would adopt another team purely on principal. If I wasn't a New Yorker I would throw myself off a tall building for even thinking about supporting a team with that kind of overwhelming advantage.

The Yankees are not special. And any inherent value their history and tradition may have once held has been rendered meaningless. I'm sure you'll be just as proud of your 2014 title with Joe Mauer and Zack Greinke. And it will totally be because of the Yankee lore.

[Antoine]

If you're trying to say the Yankees are so successful because they're from New York, when's the last time the Jets or Knicks won a championship?

[Neferata]

What possible satisfaction do you Boston/NY fans gain from rooting for that team?

The same satisfaction I get from watching this guy choke this other guy:

[jaybee]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

Boston and New York are not good because of their history, their tradition, their passionate fanbases

Boston and New York are preeminent franchises entirely because of their history, tradition, and passionate fanbases. Big emphasis on the passionate fanbase part.

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

The Yankees are not special. And any inherent value their history and tradition may have once held has been rendered meaningless.

So, a decade of wild spending has rendered the names Ruth, Gehrig, Dimaggio, Mantle, etc meaningless? Ummm, OK. Hate the system, hate the Yankees, whatever, but now you're just crying hater bullshit.

Just because the WNBA is more popular in Tennessee doesn't mean baseball is dead.

[Gilgamel]

Uh huh. New York and Boston have the market cornered on baseball history and passionate fan bases. I'm sure that will be why Zack Greinke and Joe Mauer end up there in a couple of years. The history. Boston didn't win a world series for so many years that they even came up with one of those idiotic curses to explain it, but it's their history and winning tradition that leads them to success. Right.

You'll have to excuse the rest of MLB fans for not being as passionate, when they know that any major talent they manage to draft and develop will probably end up playing the bulk of their primes with someone else. Assuming they can even sign them, everyone knows many draft picks are unsignable by most teams, and NY/Boston typically sign the major foreign players.

If you're going to be a frontrunning asshole Yankee or Boston fan, at least have some self-respect and admit that you're only good because your team has more more money to spend than anyone else. And that the system that you are reaping the benefits of has essentially killed the sport in great sports towns like Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and Kansas City.

But that's because your fans are more passionate, right? Those Steeler fans never gave a damn about the Pirates anyway.

[dandrools]

Originally Posted by Antoine

If you're trying to say the Yankees are so successful because they're from New York, when's the last time the Jets or Knicks won a championship?

The NFL and NBA have salary caps and/or much more involved revenue sharing. There is no comparison.

[jaybee]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

Uh huh. New York and Boston have the market cornered on baseball history and passionate fan bases. I'm sure that will be why Zack Greinke and Joe Mauer end up there in a couple of years. The history. Boston didn't win a world series for so many years that they even came up with one of those idiotic curses to explain it, but it's their history and winning tradition that leads them to success. Right.

You're great at twisting words around to suit your own bullshit. Nobody watched baseball all those years in Boston until 2004? Same with NY until '96?

Where did I say their history leads them to success? I never did. I said they are preeminent franchises because of their fanbases, not winners. Great players that they pay excessive salaries win championships for them. No shit Sherlock. We all know this.

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

You'll have to excuse the rest of MLB fans for not being as passionate, when they know that any major talent they manage to draft and develop will probably end up playing the bulk of their primes with someone else. Assuming they can even sign them, everyone knows many draft picks are unsignable by most teams, and NY/Boston typically sign the major foreign players.

If you're going to be a frontrunning asshole Yankee or Boston fan, at least have some self-respect and admit that you're only good because your team has more more money to spend than anyone else. And that the system that you are reaping the benefits of has essentially killed the sport in great sports towns like Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and Kansas City.

But that's because your fans are more passionate, right? Those Steeler fans never gave a damn about the Pirates anyway.

Everyone knows the teams that make the playoffs year after year have $100 million dollar payrolls. Is that what you are getting at? Is that the huge nugget of wisdom you are trying to convey here? The system sucks - wow, what a revelation. Who exactly are you arguing this point with in this thread?

So now tell me, how does the last decade of spending taint the entire history of the organization and render it meaningless? Boston had a high payroll in 2007, is Ted Williams' legacy diminished?

[arkk123]

Babe Ruth never existed since Texeira got 160 million.

[Neferata]

Gilgamel, I agree with you, I just don't take out my frustrations on the Yankees and Redsox. Can't I agree with you that this is a problem in baseball while still liking my favorite team of any sport(the Yankees)?

No, I don't think the Yankees would be as consistently good as they are if they couldn't outspend the league by such a large margin. Yes, I do think the Yankees would still be one of the more competitive teams on a regular basis under such conditions, although with more "rebuilding" years. Teams like the Pirates have larger problems than just lack of money to spend. Their ownership/management are completely incompetent.

The Yankees have nothing to apologize for. You expect them to artificially handicap themselves out of some sense of fairness to you and whatever team you root for and it's just complete bullshit. It is not George Steinbrenner's fault that he has more money and is willing to spend more of it to help his team win. It's not against the fucking rules, so take your frustrations out on the correct target. Maybe when you people actually start blaming baseball, and not the Yankees and Redsox, we'll actually see some changes to the league.

I like the Yankees. I like Mariano Rivera, Andy Pettitte, and Derek Jeter. I liked Tino Martinez, Bernie Williams, Paul O'neill, and so many other players I've lost track at this point. I'm sorry we're not all unique American snowflakes like the rest of you who will mindlessly root for the plucky little underdogs in every situation because "they've got heart." I don't need the lesser team to win in any given situation just to feel better about my own miserable life. I like the badguys. I like the confidence and history of the Yankees, and I hope they win every fucking world series every single year for the rest of my life.

[Gilgamel]

New York and Boston do not have any more passionate a fanbase than Philly, St. Louis, or any number of other teams in the league. My point is that all the things you are pointing out(history, tradition, fanbase) are not the things that differentiate Boston and New York from the rest of the league. Money is. That is an inarguable fact. When you bring up your 26 titles or your history you're just obfuscating the fact that New York has a significant competitive advantage over the rest of the league. Period.

So listen very carefully: for the purposes of determining why New York and Boston have been successful recently, your history, tradition, and fanbase are meaningless. You simply buy better players. If a Russian billionaire suddenly bought the Kansas City Royals and started spending 300 million a year they would be a "preeminent franchise." Thirteen teams have more hall of famers than Boston. Their history is no more impressive than half a dozen other teams. All these other bullshit arguments are nonsensical.

As baseball falls from prominence nationally the fact that you now have 27 titles matters less and less. People follow sports where their team can compete. Everything about baseball right now is tainted.

Edit: Nef I just find it reprehensible for anyone who truly loves the sport to support the teams that are at the heart of the problem. I played for most of a decade, I have thousands of baseball cards locked away somewhere, and now I can't even tolerate the sport. Fans who act like their team has accomplished something under the current set of rules simply infuriate me. The Yankees or Red Sox winning a title is not something anyone should celebrate. It's like celebrating the fact that you finally got laid after paying a crackwhore fifty bucks.

My problem is less with the Yankees and Red Sox than it is with their ridiculous fanbase.

[BurnemWizfyre]

Arod made just under 5 million dollars of the entire payroll for the Florida Marlins. Let that sink in for you, an entire team combined only made a bit over 4 million more then 1 player. From steroids to no Salary cap Baseball is crap and will be so until they implement a Salary cap.

You think people hate the Dallas Cowboys right now, imagine if Jerry Jones was allowed to spend whatever he wanted. The entire NFL would be a farm system for the Dallas Cowboys where star players eventually migrated to get their big pay day, sound like a team in baseball to anyone?