[CFB] 2009-2010 season of awesome - Page 87

Foggy · 10-12-2009, 09:34 AM

Um pretty much ever team in Florida, Texas, and California are almost entirely instate players. There are a few exceptions on every team, especially the elites, but even UF, UT, and USC are a vast majority of instate. Now, to be fair, UF, UT, and USC have a much larger and more talented pool of players in their respective states than Virginia will ever have.

Lenaldo · 10-12-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foggy

Um pretty much ever team in Florida, Texas, and California are almost entirely instate players. There are a few exceptions on every team, especially the elites, but even UF, UT, and USC are a vast majority of instate. Now, to be fair, UF, UT, and USC have a much larger and more talented pool of players in their respective states than Virginia will ever have.

Pretty much this. There was a chart thrown around a few months back showing team's success relative to the percentage of in-state atheletes and Texas, tOSU, UF, etc were all at the top. Hell a lot of OU's players are from texas.

I think what makes these schools successful is the large talent pool in their own state combined with the ability to grab a few high profile recruits nationally. I'm not sure a team could win JUST with their states players(except for maybe UT and UF)... it always seems like an important piece of the puzzle is an out of stater.

Genjiro · 10-12-2009, 10:35 AM

I put that chart up, and thats the difference in cfb. WVU, my alma mater, has maybe 1 four star guy every year come out in the entire state, a 5 star guy every 5-10 years. Compare that to Florida, Texas, and California who have really dont need to go out of state much and have tons of those kids every year. Hell, Mack Brown can wake up in his tighty whiteys, grab a phone, and call some 5* kid from Texas and say hey kid wanna play for Texas? Yes sir, its been my lifelong dream to play for Texas growing up here. Then he rolls back over and goes to bed. Tough job at Texas to recruit.

Compare that with my team, who has to have tons and tons of booster money to fly planes down to states like Florida often to meet with kids, their coaches at the top high schools to develop relationships, and to see these kids play. I saw a figure for our coaching staff and it was some six figure number of just flight costs per year to visit recruits in the top states--its the vast majority of where the money goes. Its just simply far far far easier for some schools than others. Though we are starting to make headway into the VT owned pipelines in Virginia in the last year or two, getting some big talent there out from under Beamers nose.

And for reference here are the charts. Compare wins and instate recruits from WVU to Texas. Luckily for us, we recruit the SEC caliber kids down south in Florida mostly, and there is SO much talent in that state even after UF, FSU, and Miami have gorged their rosters on the best state talent there are plenty of good players to make it to the likes of us and schools like South Florida, which is why you are seeing them competitive. I think we have 22 kids from Florida on our 2 deep and have recruited well there for years, which is why we laughed when we played UGA a couple years ago and Greg Blue said we hadnt seen SEC speed yet.

Ham n Cheese · 10-12-2009, 02:43 PM

Yep but WV also doesn't play 8 other teams a year who grab every good remaining Texas player. Their wins, along with BC and Virginia, are a bit inflated due to that on the sheet

Mario Speedwagon · 10-12-2009, 03:03 PM

Let's be real here, they are all inflated. Every year the good teams play over half their schedules against shitty teams that have little to no chance.

Gilgamel · 10-12-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mario Speedwagon

Let's be real here, they are all inflated. Every year the good teams play over half their schedules against shitty teams that have little to no chance.

To be fair the same is true of every major sport. Baseball has maybe 12 competitive teams, and maybe five with the elite payrolls. Football has a dozen or more dysfunctional franchises at any one time. Even your local rec league is the same way.

That's the definition of "good". You beat the crappy teams consistently and you win most of the time against the middle of the road teams. Games against other good teams are toss ups. It's that way everywhere.

Mario Speedwagon · 10-12-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

To be fair the same is true of every major sport. Baseball has maybe 12 competitive teams, and maybe five with the elite payrolls. Football has a dozen or more dysfunctional franchises at any one time. Even your local rec league is the same way.

That's the definition of "good". You beat the crappy teams consistently and you win most of the time against the middle of the road teams. Games against other good teams are toss ups. It's that way everywhere.

It's nowhere near the same as college football. These teams don't have chance not because they powerhouses are so good, but because they suck so fucking bad. College schedules are fucking sad man. How do you think ohio state makes it to the NC every god damn year? The same 5 schools trade of championships and everyone outside that group has almost no chance(more a function of BCS than the schedules, but still).

Besides, haven't you ever heard the saying, "there are no upsets in professional sports"?

Genjiro · 10-12-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham n Cheese

Yep but WV also doesn't play 8 other teams a year who grab every good remaining Texas player. Their wins, along with BC and Virginia, are a bit inflated due to that on the sheet

According to Sagarin rankings, in 07 we played the 40th toughest schedule and were 1-0 vs the top 10, Texas the 46th and 0-1 vs the top 10. In 06, WVU had the 37th toughest schedule vs Texas at 60, both were 0-1 vs the top 10. In 05, when UT finished #1 they had the 13th toughest while we had the 60th. Texas averages out to a rank 39th SoS over those years, and WVU a rank 45th SoS.

It's not that much different to be honest. Our schedule prior to Miami, VT, and BC leaving were probably much tougher in that stretch too than Texas, so it depends I guess when you look. Regardless, Texas cleans house on the best athletes in the state and has a much easier time than a school without much homegrown talent. Look at USC, what competition on the entire west coast, or hell, go west of Texas....what competition do they have for 5 star athletes who want to be close to home? None really, its the only marquis program in the entire western 1/3 of the country.

Fadaar · 10-12-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

To be fair the same is true of every major sport. Baseball has maybe 12 competitive teams, and maybe five with the elite payrolls. Football has a dozen or more dysfunctional franchises at any one time. Even your local rec league is the same way.

That's the definition of "good". You beat the crappy teams consistently and you win most of the time against the middle of the road teams. Games against other good teams are toss ups. It's that way everywhere.

Yeah but you know what those leagues have? Playoffs.

Gilgamel · 10-12-2009, 05:16 PM

There's a difference Genj. Far be it from me to be an SEC homer, but how many defensive linemen does WVU have in the NFL?

Everyone talks about "SEC speed" but it isn't about skill position players running 4.4s, it's about linemen and linebackers running 4.5s and 4.6s. Elite teams in other conferences have front seven players with SEC speed, but 10 of the 12 in the SEC do, and that's the difference. If you have a bad QB or offensive line in other conferences, most games you can make due. In the SEC you are dead meat.

I just wish Tennessee produced more major college talent. We gave twenty one commitments for next year and only one is from Tennessee.

Genjiro · 10-12-2009, 05:21 PM

What does the NFL have to do with anything as far as college goes anyways, the spread offense which is dominant in college has nothign to do with NFL schemes?

And fwiw....

The Big East beat every conference including the SEC and Big 12 in players taken per team in last years draft anyways. Go look it up if you dont believe me.

Kasi · 10-12-2009, 05:49 PM

There is a vast difference between the schedules many of the top teams play. Teams of course have no choice over their in conference foes, but OOC there are several different philosophies of opponent choice in play. From most common to least:

1) Cupcake central. Too many teams in college football schedule predominantly weak non BCS schools for their games. Usually this is the practice of mid tier BCS teams, but occasionally some of the top tier partake in it as well. See Penn State, Texas Tech, most SEC/Big 12 and Big 10 teams and so on.

2) Schedule one BCS team to give us the shine of respectability, but try to make sure its a home game if at all possible! Or at worst a home and home. Most teams not in 1 are in this category.

3) The few teams that because of historic matchups, or because they actually have some balls, or because they want to play on the national stage but realize their conference sucks too much so they have to play everyone they can OOC fits here. Sadly this category consists of about 7-8 teams tops. USC and Miami have been the consistent teams here, but lately one can find teams like TCU, Oregon (first ranked team to ever play in Boise), Boise State, BYU and an occasional Big East school.

I'm glad that this home and home between power schools is coming more into vogue recently, but there is still too much incentive for teams to schedule patsy schedules (see Penn State or Ohio State til they put USC on their schedule or some of the Big 12 schools)

If you don't play anyone out of your conference worth shit, you better be historically good to get in a title game. I think people learned that a bit after seeing the Big 10 fall flat as of late, but voters are still stupid as shit. Point being, there is a big difference with how schools schedule. Some get 2 patsies, some get 6. And it's all because of that OOC schedule.

Gilgamel · 10-12-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genjiro

What does the NFL have to do with anything as far as college goes anyways, the spread offense which is dominant in college has nothign to do with NFL schemes?

And fwiw....

The Big East beat every conference including the SEC and Big 12 in players taken per team in last years draft anyways. Go look it up if you dont believe me.

Lol you negged me when you're too much of a pussy to leave yours on. Your argument is asinine. NFL players will typically be better in college than non-NFL players. The fact that they may be playing against different personnel groupings in the NFL is utterly irrelevant.

Also way to pick a one year window to try to add some weight to your views. I'm sure in 2006 when Hampton or Richmond or whoever had three players drafted that meant they had the talent to be a consistent force in a major conference.

This would be like me as a Titans fan trying to compare my team to the Steelers. We may have some good years, but Pittsburgh is IT when it comes to the NFL, along with Dallas.

Established powers are established powers for a reason.

On a lighter note.

Genjiro · 10-12-2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

Lol you negged me when you're too much of a pussy to leave yours on. Your argument is asinine. NFL players will typically be better in college than non-NFL players. The fact that they may be playing against different personnel groupings in the NFL is utterly irrelevant.

Also way to pick a one year window to try to add some weight to your views. I'm sure in 2006 when Hampton or Richmond or whoever had three players drafted that meant they had the talent to be a consistent force in a major conference.

This would be like me as a Titans fan trying to compare my team to the Steelers. We may have some good years, but Pittsburgh is IT when it comes to the NFL, along with Dallas.

Established powers are established powers for a reason.

Um, no I didnt neg you fuckstick but thanks for playing. And there are plenty of Big East great players in the NFL. Um, how about the NFL 1st and 4th leader in sacks in Dumervil and Dwight Freeney? BE players dont get as noticed because....dum dum dum.....there are only 2/3 the teams that are in the SEC and other conferences. Psst, that means there are less players who get drafted. I know, basic math and all is tough.

And no, the argument isnt asinine. Do NFL offenses run the spread? What two offenses were run in the mother fucking national championship game last year shirley? OH SHIT THE SPREAD YOU SAY????? And QBs there who were all in the hesiman trophy race were hmm...Chase Daniels (spread), McCoy (spread), Brennan (spread), Tebow (spread), Bradford (spread), Pat White in recent years (spread). So those guys should all be starting QBs in the NFL right now, because obviously the guys who do the best in college and who do the best in the NFL should be the best at the other level right???

As for WVU, WVU runs a base defense made for college that is....dum dum dum.......the 3-3-5, which was developed to counter guess what....dum dum dum.....the spread offense!!! Not exactly an NFL defense, but we have done very well with those players recently. You are starting to sound like douchey USC fans who stroke their own cocks about their NFL ready offenses and defenses.

Twobit Whore · 10-12-2009, 10:24 PM

Genjiro has a doppleganger that is negging people in this forum. I got a neg from someone claiming to be him when in the next post he agreed with me...

10-12-2009, 10:35 AM	#1293 (permalink)
Genjiro We bawlin boi! Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,818	I put that chart up, and thats the difference in cfb. WVU, my alma mater, has maybe 1 four star guy every year come out in the entire state, a 5 star guy every 5-10 years. Compare that to Florida, Texas, and California who have really dont need to go out of state much and have tons of those kids every year. Hell, Mack Brown can wake up in his tighty whiteys, grab a phone, and call some 5* kid from Texas and say hey kid wanna play for Texas? Yes sir, its been my lifelong dream to play for Texas growing up here. Then he rolls back over and goes to bed. Tough job at Texas to recruit. Compare that with my team, who has to have tons and tons of booster money to fly planes down to states like Florida often to meet with kids, their coaches at the top high schools to develop relationships, and to see these kids play. I saw a figure for our coaching staff and it was some six figure number of just flight costs per year to visit recruits in the top states--its the vast majority of where the money goes. Its just simply far far far easier for some schools than others. Though we are starting to make headway into the VT owned pipelines in Virginia in the last year or two, getting some big talent there out from under Beamers nose. And for reference here are the charts. Compare wins and instate recruits from WVU to Texas. Luckily for us, we recruit the SEC caliber kids down south in Florida mostly, and there is SO much talent in that state even after UF, FSU, and Miami have gorged their rosters on the best state talent there are plenty of good players to make it to the likes of us and schools like South Florida, which is why you are seeing them competitive. I think we have 22 kids from Florida on our 2 deep and have recruited well there for years, which is why we laughed when we played UGA a couple years ago and Greg Blue said we hadnt seen SEC speed yet. Attached Images __________________ Genjiro--Legacy of Steel--EQ1 sexy monk (retired) Entreri--Guildleader of Ardent Legion--EQ2 (retired) "The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth." -- H.L. Mencken Last edited by Genjiro; 10-12-2009 at 10:38 AM..

10-12-2009, 02:43 PM	#1294 (permalink)
Ham n Cheese The sky calls to us Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 12,412 +58 Internets	Yep but WV also doesn't play 8 other teams a year who grab every good remaining Texas player. Their wins, along with BC and Virginia, are a bit inflated due to that on the sheet __________________

10-12-2009, 05:16 PM	#1300 (permalink)
Gilgamel King Me Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rocky Top Posts: 2,461 +0 Internets	There's a difference Genj. Far be it from me to be an SEC homer, but how many defensive linemen does WVU have in the NFL? Everyone talks about "SEC speed" but it isn't about skill position players running 4.4s, it's about linemen and linebackers running 4.5s and 4.6s. Elite teams in other conferences have front seven players with SEC speed, but 10 of the 12 in the SEC do, and that's the difference. If you have a bad QB or offensive line in other conferences, most games you can make due. In the SEC you are dead meat. I just wish Tennessee produced more major college talent. We gave twenty one commitments for next year and only one is from Tennessee. __________________ Just an earthbound misfit, I

10-12-2009, 05:21 PM	#1301 (permalink)
Genjiro We bawlin boi! Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,818	What does the NFL have to do with anything as far as college goes anyways, the spread offense which is dominant in college has nothign to do with NFL schemes? And fwiw.... The Big East beat every conference including the SEC and Big 12 in players taken per team in last years draft anyways. Go look it up if you dont believe me. __________________ Genjiro--Legacy of Steel--EQ1 sexy monk (retired) Entreri--Guildleader of Ardent Legion--EQ2 (retired) "The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth." -- H.L. Mencken

10-12-2009, 10:24 PM	#1305 (permalink)
Twobit Whore Insert Quarter Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,167 -14 Internets	Genjiro has a doppleganger that is negging people in this forum. I got a neg from someone claiming to be him when in the next post he agreed with me... __________________ I got a list of demands written on the palm of my hand. I ball my fists and you gonna know where I stand.

10-12-2009, 09:34 AM	#1291 (permalink)
Foggy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 194 -7 Internets	Um pretty much ever team in Florida, Texas, and California are almost entirely instate players. There are a few exceptions on every team, especially the elites, but even UF, UT, and USC are a vast majority of instate. Now, to be fair, UF, UT, and USC have a much larger and more talented pool of players in their respective states than Virginia will ever have.

10-12-2009, 05:49 PM	#1302 (permalink)
Kasi Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 862 +5 Internets	There is a vast difference between the schedules many of the top teams play. Teams of course have no choice over their in conference foes, but OOC there are several different philosophies of opponent choice in play. From most common to least: 1) Cupcake central. Too many teams in college football schedule predominantly weak non BCS schools for their games. Usually this is the practice of mid tier BCS teams, but occasionally some of the top tier partake in it as well. See Penn State, Texas Tech, most SEC/Big 12 and Big 10 teams and so on. 2) Schedule one BCS team to give us the shine of respectability, but try to make sure its a home game if at all possible! Or at worst a home and home. Most teams not in 1 are in this category. 3) The few teams that because of historic matchups, or because they actually have some balls, or because they want to play on the national stage but realize their conference sucks too much so they have to play everyone they can OOC fits here. Sadly this category consists of about 7-8 teams tops. USC and Miami have been the consistent teams here, but lately one can find teams like TCU, Oregon (first ranked team to ever play in Boise), Boise State, BYU and an occasional Big East school. I'm glad that this home and home between power schools is coming more into vogue recently, but there is still too much incentive for teams to schedule patsy schedules (see Penn State or Ohio State til they put USC on their schedule or some of the Big 12 schools) If you don't play anyone out of your conference worth shit, you better be historically good to get in a title game. I think people learned that a bit after seeing the Big 10 fall flat as of late, but voters are still stupid as shit. Point being, there is a big difference with how schools schedule. Some get 2 patsies, some get 6. And it's all because of that OOC schedule.

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