[NBA] 08'/09' Season

[Rad]

Originally Posted by Mippo

Kobe has never been the best player in the NBA. Kobe won those titles because of Shaq, you know, the guy who actually won the MVP in all three finals? If Kobe had never played with Shaq, it's likely he has 0 titles in his career right now whereas Shaq could've played with quite a few other guards and he would still have multiple titles right now. I'd also put Tim Duncan over Kobe as well any day of the week. He's boring to watch, so he doesn't get talked about a lot, but he plays excellent fundamental basketball. In the past few years, Wade has been better then Kobe as well. If Wade doesn't get injured in the playoffs every freaking year he very likely would have 2 titles under his belt already.

If this... If that... If this...

Who's ever won without talent? The year Jordan left to play baseball Pippen (who won the MVP that year mind you) still lead the Bulls to the Eastern Conference semi's. Does that mean the only reason Jordan won all those years is because he had another supestar next to him? Does that tarnish his legacy? Hell no it doesn't. Shaq won because Kobe won, just as Kobe won because Shaq won.

[Mippo]

Obviously you need a supporting cast to do anything in the playoffs. One superstar can't win a title by himself. The point is that Jordan and Shaq would have won titles with any number of players because they were simply that dominant in their primes. Obviously Pippen and Kobe were contributing factors, but they were not the cause of the championships. There are only a select few that not only have the talent, but also the proper decision making to actually be considered a legitimate contender year in and year out. Pippen and Kobe are talented, but they are not anywhere near the level that Jordan and Shaq were on. There are tons of players at or near that same talent level that can easily fill in the gaps of a supporting role to a Jordan or a Shaq.

Kobe wins because he is very talented, but he isn't a smart basketball player and that's usually his downfall in the playoffs. Jordan and Shaq were not only extremely talented, they were also extremely smart and almost always made the proper decisions when it mattered. It's the discipline to play smart basketball for 48 minutes that matters, and players like Kobe simply don't have it. It's not really something you can point to in a stat sheet, it's just something the great players have that separates them.

Talent will get you deep in the playoffs, but there is a huge difference between getting deep in the playoffs, and winning the title. That's why players like Iverson, Kobe, and Carmelo Anthony do not win titles. The only reason the Nuggets moved into legitimate contender category is because of Chauncy Billups, who isn't as talented as some of the truly dominant players, but he is an extremely smart player and capable of winning a title. You need the talent to compete, and a smart player to anchor your team during the stretch of the games.

[Mippo]

Without a low post presence, the Rockets can't match the scoring. Unless there is a huge turnaround soon, the Lakers are likely running away with this one. It's a shame because the Rockets would've won this series with Yao.

[joz123]

If the Lakers play like this every game they can easily make it to the finals. Once they win a few games they start slacking thinking the other team has no chance which is what they can't afford to do in the conference finals.

[AladainAF]

Grats Lakers.

That was the most backward playoff series I've seen in awhile. Whomever breaks out in the first 5 minutes of play would win in nearly every game this series by a lot of points.

[Ancalagon]

Very much looking forward to the conference finals. Lakers/Nuggets promises to be a very quality matchup and Cavs/Whoever should be entertaining if not necessarily close. I'll take Lakers in 7 and Cavs in 5.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by Mippo

Kobe wins because he is very talented, but he isn't a smart basketball player and that's usually his downfall in the playoffs. Jordan and Shaq were not only extremely talented, they were also extremely smart and almost always made the proper decisions when it mattered. It's the discipline to play smart basketball for 48 minutes that matters, and players like Kobe simply don't have it. It's not really something you can point to in a stat sheet, it's just something the great players have that separates them.

What the fuck are you talking about here. Kobe wasnt going to win a fucking thing with Chris Mihm, Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Brian Cook, Luke Walton (younger one) He's decent bench player now days.



Kobe was the ONLY reason that team made it into the play offs. HIs supporting cast were fucking horrible. He had absolutely no one to hit a open shot. Even this years team is iffy from the 3 point line.

Notice the last 2 years, Kobe's played alot different becuase he has confidence in the players around him now. He doesnt always have to be that guy to score. Just like in todays game, he scored 12 points. The other guys picked it up, he trusted to throw the ball to them and for them to make plays.

Guys like the reason why guys like Iverson/stockton/KMalone didnt win a ring is becuase of the other teams that won it. In the 90's it was a dominate Bulls team. The first part of the 2000's it was a dominate Lakers team. Its not becuase Iverson couldn't play team ball, its because the other teams were just better.

I think thats a bullshit fucking reason. Nuggets havent won anything since Melo, becuase they played absolutely no defense because of their style of ball. Now they are playing a slowed down tempo that focuses on defense and amazing things happen.

Shaq was the dominate player just becuase of his size, but he was in no way shape or form the best player in the NBA. He didnt have a complete game, he was just big. I love Shaq though. He brought 3 rings to the Lakers, but he had issues too.

One thing i wanna bring up is say lets look at the dynasty teams for since the 80's.

There was the Lakers with Magic, Worth, Kareem. Awesome talented team.

Bostons team, Bird, Parish, Mchale.

Detroit. Thomas, Lambeer, Rodman, Joe Dumars

Bulls, Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc, Rodman, Grant

Spurs, Duncan Robinson, then later Duncan, Parker, Manuuuuu

Lakers, Shaq and Kobe with some Glen Rice and other good players.

Notice them kind of teams had freaking awesome talent around them. What kind of talent did Kobe have aftter Shaq? who did Iverson have? Carmelo is still very young, so he may win a few. To early to determine what he is or isnt yet.

[joz123]

YES! FUCK YOU CELTICS!!!!!

[Antoine]

LOL celtics
also patrick ewing's guarantee came through!
shaq's prediction didn't quite, only 19 points instead of 30

[Ham n Cheese]

Happy to see the C's use, they were getting a lot of calls as it was too and Rondo was up to his usual antics. Seriously this playoffs has made me go from "oh Rondo is an up and coming PG" to "fuck Rondo"

[Obsidian]

As much as I think Rivers is a terrible coach, I've got to hand it to the Celtics. They know how to play the refs like no one else; they get so many calls that I would call questionable at best and they get away with the shadiest things that I can remember seeing in recent memory. It didn't work out for the Celtics this year, but Rivers has coached up a team that knows how to use every shady tactic in the book.

I think Nuggets vs Lakers goes 7 with the Lakers taking it. Cavs vs Magic goes 6 with the Cavs taking it.

[Zeste]

The Orlando magic in the eastern finals? What year is this??!

[sticktastic]

Originally Posted by Zeste

The Orlando magic in the eastern finals? What year is this??!

Doesnt matter. Cavs are going to rampage through the ECF. The laker's number might be up against denver tho. Denver is playing high end basketball atm, and the lakers just put out a shit ton more effort then I think anyone had originally thought....denver will take this in 6 max, which will set up a finals showcasing two top draft picks from the 03 draft.

[Adam12]

Denver in 6, Cleveland in 5.

I don't get the Lakers, really. They should have Walton run the point, I'm fucking serious. He can handle the ball, he can pass, and can play a bit of D. I love his game, he just doesn't get enough time.

Walton and Kobe in the back court, Odom and Bynum at the F, Gasol in the middle. That's a HUGE starting 5 that can also run. I don't think Denver could match up, imagine Luke pressing Chauncey and forcing him to drive...into Gasol and Bynum. Kobe is capable of guarding Melo as well as most anyone else. Then it'd take LeBron willing the Cav's to beat the Lakers (which is always possible with that fucker, jesus).

[Pharazon]

I give the Lakers 60/40 odds of beating Denver. Cavs 65/35 odds of beating Orlando.

Cavs aren't going to march through this series like they did in the others, its their first real test. Orlando beat them 2-1 during the season. Howard should have his biggest series of the playoffs yet imo, I don't see any of the big guys on Cleveland slowing him down. Perkins held his own against Howard at times, Varejao will not.