Working Out -- Your stacks?

[arkk91]

Originally Posted by Warrian

BSN NO-Xplode
BSN CellMass
AtLarge Nutrition Nitrean Protein
Fish oil
Centrum Performance


I don't care what anyone says about NO-Xplode and how it's all hype. I've tried several other pre-workout supplements and NO-Xplode has given me the best pumps and the most energy by FAR. I have also tried taking just caffeine before I worked out and sorry to say, it's not the same. Not even close.

The gripe with NO products is they are just "for fun". They aren't going to make you bigger or stronger, just give you a better pump, or so they claim.

[Tuco]

I haven't really noticed a big different in NO-Xplode, but I thought the idea behind increase in vascularity helped transfer nutrients to your muscles?

[arkk91]

Originally Posted by Tuco

I haven't really noticed a big different in NO-Xplode, but I thought the idea behind increase in vascularity helped transfer nutrients to your muscles?

And to increase the pump, which has no proven muscle building property in and of itself.

It isn't going to transfer nutrients to your muscles if you aren't taking in nutrients while your muscle is that pumped.

NO products are just such a fad and are essentially just a novelty. If they get you more focused or whatever go for it, but they will not make you bigger or stronger...although focus/etc. could create size as a byproduct in the long run.

[jayrebb]

NO was originally the big hype from the guy that made creatine. I remember when it first came out and there was only 1 product that was available at GNC only. Cant remember the name, dont even think it had one.

The thing was hyped to hell as the "new creatine" by the "creator" of creatine.

Its just a novelty. I think it creates a ton of free radicals, so Id steer clear of it.

[Visions]

Supplements are exactly that. They supplement your diet they do not replace it, and they do help. For the majority of people though supplements don't do very much because their entire diet is fairly poor. If you are on a good diet for your goals supps will help.

People have different fitness goals though and different supps are needed for different goals. Little johnny who is doing bicep curls every day in the squat rack pounding creatine like its rockstar wonders why he can't grow. It's not the supplements fault. Want to get bigger and stronger its pretty hard and it takes a lot of consistency. Get on a good routine that focuses on heavy power Compound lifts like squats, deadlifts, bench, and power cleans. These are the excersises that make you bigger. Doing 50 pushups and 100 situps and bicep curls until your arms fall off will get you nowhere. Eat at least 5 meals a day all with protein included 1.5g of protein per lb. of body weight every day at least. The amount of calories you need varies on a case by case basis but most people who are trying to gain muscle mass are not eating nearly enough for fear of getting fat.

Stop wasting time on cardio that burns just as much muscle as fat like low intensity jogging for 3 miles. Instead try High Intensity Interval Training. Why do Sprinters look like they are chisled out of stone and marathon runners look like pussies.

Rest is also another important factor, Your body needs recovery time if you are lifting correctly. Your body doesn't grow in the gym, it grows in your bed.

[seanwin]

Animal Pack
Cod liver oil
Lethicin
Milk Thistle
10g Phosphagen
Vege Greens
Generic Whey Protein

Edit Forgot
At least a gallon of water a day. Its not a stack but next to enough food to sustain/gain. When i started out i was eating the norm 2g carbs/1g protein and whatever fat (I have very high metabolism so never watched the amount of fat). But until i started drinking alot of water, results and the way i felt overall wasnt very great.

[Genjiro]

Originally Posted by arkk91

I lift for fun, hence I am not a pro athlete in any way, and I can feel the difference when I am taking creatine and when I am not. There is a reason why it is the most researched and most proven through research supplement in history.

It works. You can get like 3 months of creatine for 20 bucks too. Hardly a waste of money.

Regardless, for the penny pinching college student its not really needed, and it probably isn't going to be much of a difference for a casual lifter/gym rat. If it makes the average guy workout better because he feels like its making a small difference, well then whatever helps you reach your goals is your business. I'd try it for sure, and although its effectiveness is something people attribute more qualitatively than quantitatively, just be honest with yourself about it helping you--because there is a lot of variance between individuals (I'll talk about that below). It helps sure, but like I said, university research on creatine has shown it might really only be useful enough if you're an athlete needing an edge (ie your competition is using it depending on the sport, and its unlikely they are *not* using it if it helps, so at the least you are leveling the playing field). Or if you are really a min-maxer and want a small added extra % in lifting feel free, but for average Joe he doesn't need it. If you notice a difference and have the cash, then yea sure go for it. That's a good deal wherever you get that arkk, when I took it a few years ago it was expensive as shit, but I haven't checked on prices on it recently as I just take whey now as my only supplement to lifting.

Creatine is primarily useful to lifters for the most part anyways (as its anaerobic), and evidence out there shows in sports like, say, football--the tiny added burst you get from some extra juice in a catalyzed ATP-PC reaction for very short bursts of energy might simply have those gains offset by the added water retention (and thus added weight) which slows one down. If you're a distance runner or a swimmer, forget about it--it will be detrimental. Long term side effects have yet to be determined from heavy use of PC as well, early reports (anecdotal mind you) are leading researchers to believe it can lead to mild neurological dysfunction and some GI problems. Usage of 8 week intervals though has shown no adverse effects, so if it were me (I dont take PC), I wouldn't use it year round while the the jury is out about its long term side effects (more than likely nothing serious though, but better safe than sorry ).

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to shit in your creatine Cheerios, it absolutely does help--but how much it does, and why there are such marked individual variations in its effect between subjects still have a lot of people in academia uncertain. There is a lot of support brewing from scientists now that genetics plays a huge role in how effective our bodies are at using additional creatine. Some people seem to get far less of a benefit from it (for unknown reasons, which led to this genetic hypothesis) than others do under an identical supervised workout regimen, for instance, which is interesting/puzzling.

There is however, a lot of other neat research going on right now with creatine in other areas though. Interestingly enough, preliminary tests of giving creatine to Alzheimers patients (there is an ongoing research study at my school) is showing some positive results, as there are some known but not understood interactions with creatine and brain function as well. Not surprising there, the brain is probably the least understood thing in biology.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by seanwin

Animal Pack
Cod liver oil
Lethicin
Milk Thistle
10g Phosphagen
Vege Greens
Generic Whey Protein

Edit Forgot
At least a gallon of water a day. Its not a stack but next to enough food to sustain/gain. When i started out i was eating the norm 2g carbs/1g protein and whatever fat (I have very high metabolism so never watched the amount of fat). But until i started drinking alot of water, results and the way i felt overall wasnt very great.

What is milk thistle? (googel and wiki are broke probably) and what's it's good for ?

[arkk91]

Originally Posted by Genjiro

Regardless, for the penny pinching college student its not really needed, and it probably isn't going to be much of a difference for a casual lifter/gym rat. If it makes the average guy workout better because he feels like its making a small difference, well then whatever helps you reach your goals is your business. I'd try it for sure, and although its effectiveness is something people attribute more qualitatively than quantitatively, just be honest with yourself about it helping you--because there is a lot of variance between individuals (I'll talk about that below). It helps sure, but like I said, university research on creatine has shown it might really only be useful enough if you're an athlete needing an edge (ie your competition is using it depending on the sport, and its unlikely they are *not* using it if it helps, so at the least you are leveling the playing field). Or if you are really a min-maxer and want a small added extra % in lifting feel free, but for average Joe he doesn't need it. If you notice a difference and have the cash, then yea sure go for it. That's a good deal wherever you get that arkk, when I took it a few years ago it was expensive as shit, but I haven't checked on prices on it recently as I just take whey now as my only supplement to lifting.

Creatine is primarily useful to lifters for the most part anyways (as its anaerobic), and evidence out there shows in sports like, say, football--the tiny added burst you get from some extra juice in a catalyzed ATP-PC reaction for very short bursts of energy might simply have those gains offset by the added water retention (and thus added weight) which slows one down. If you're a distance runner or a swimmer, forget about it--it will be detrimental. Long term side effects have yet to be determined from heavy use of PC as well, early reports (anecdotal mind you) are leading researchers to believe it can lead to mild neurological dysfunction and some GI problems. Usage of 8 week intervals though has shown no adverse effects, so if it were me (I dont take PC), I wouldn't use it year round while the the jury is out about its long term side effects (more than likely nothing serious though, but better safe than sorry ).

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to shit in your creatine Cheerios, it absolutely does help--but how much it does, and why there are such marked individual variations in its effect between subjects still have a lot of people in academia uncertain. There is a lot of support brewing from scientists now that genetics plays a huge role in how effective our bodies are at using additional creatine. Some people seem to get far less of a benefit from it (for unknown reasons, which led to this genetic hypothesis) than others do under an identical supervised workout regimen, for instance, which is interesting/puzzling.

There is however, a lot of other neat research going on right now with creatine in other areas though. Interestingly enough, preliminary tests of giving creatine to Alzheimers patients (there is an ongoing research study at my school) is showing some positive results, as there are some known but not understood interactions with creatine and brain function as well. Not surprising there, the brain is probably the least understood thing in biology.

I don't care about what you think or what those bullshit studies say. The name of the thread is "WORKING OUT...", so I am sure these people are lifting...just a gut feeling.

Creatine works, and it works for me.

Stop trying to deter people from buying a 3 month supply of something like that for 20 bucks which can significantly help their strength...while we have people blowin 40 for like 28 days of some shitty vasodilator(NO-Xplode).

Good luck on your anti-creatine crusade.

[arkk91]

Originally Posted by Tuco

What is milk thistle? (googel and wiki are broke probably) and what's it's good for ?

It is a decent liver detoxifier. People think its the best and take copious amounts of it while they run anything liver toxic (oral steroids/prohormones/prosteroids) and think it is going to rid them of any liver woes. If only it were that easy.

[Warrian]

Originally Posted by arkk91

Stop trying to deter people from buying a 3 month supply of something like that for 20 bucks which can significantly help their strength...while we have people blowin 40 for like 28 days of some shitty vasodilator(NO-Xplode).

I have to disagree with you. Is it a mental game that I'm playing with myself? It's a possibility but I highly doubt it. Like I said before, I have tried other pre-workout supplements (I.e. NO-Xplode, naNO-Vapor, etc), and I have worked out while not using any at all. I have also tried working out on just a dosage of caffeine. Out of all of those scenarios, NO-Xplode has given me the best workout. Read: Best work out. I'm not claiming that the chemicals alone are making me bigger. But I will say that it's making me have really good workouts, which in turn, are making me bigger. It doesn't fuck my stomach up like naNO-Vapor does, and I don't mind the taste at all. Is this product a complete waste of money? Might be for you and others, but it definitely isn't for me. So yeah, I disagree with you when you call the product shitty.

[arkk91]

Originally Posted by Warrian

I have to disagree with you. Is it a mental game that I'm playing with myself? It's a possibility but I highly doubt it. Like I said before, I have tried other pre-workout supplements (I.e. NO-Xplode, naNO-Vapor, etc), and I have worked out while not using any at all. I have also tried working out on just a dosage of caffeine. Out of all of those scenarios, NO-Xplode has given me the best workout. Read: Best work out. I'm not claiming that the chemicals alone are making me bigger. But I will say that it's making me have really good workouts, which in turn, are making me bigger. It doesn't fuck my stomach up like naNO-Vapor does, and I don't mind the taste at all. Is this product a complete waste of money? Might be for you and others, but it definitely isn't for me. So yeah, I disagree with you when you call the product shitty.

You must not read very well.

Look like 6-7 posts up.

"NO products are just such a fad and are essentially just a novelty. If they get you more focused or whatever go for it, but they will not make you bigger or stronger...although focus/etc. could create size as a byproduct in the long run."

And the latter part is true. Taking the 3 main components of NO-Xplode, we have mainly Arginine which has been shown to blunt GH release(which is bad) and over time it essentially wears out your NO system/production when you take it every single day in large amounts.

Secondly is Creatine Ethyl Ester Malate. Not proven. Monohydrate is the only proven form of Creatine and nothing has been proven scientifically to work better.

Lastly, stimulants/focus agents, "L-Tyrosine, L-Tyrosine AKG, Taurine, Glucuronolactone, Methylxanthine (Caffeine), MCT's (Medium Chain Triglycerides), Vinpocetine 99%, Vincamine 99%, Vinburnine 99%".

Woopee.

[Genjiro]

Originally Posted by arkk91

I don't care about what you think or what those bullshit studies say. The name of the thread is "WORKING OUT...", so I am sure these people are lifting...just a gut feeling.

Creatine works, and it works for me.

Stop trying to deter people from buying a 3 month supply of something like that for 20 bucks which can significantly help their strength...while we have people blowin 40 for like 28 days of some shitty vasodilator(NO-Xplode).

Good luck on your anti-creatine crusade.

Way to not even read my entire post, gg.

Crusade? I was merely trying to have some intelligent discussion on the issue. Was I being confrontational or argumentative? *You* are the one, who in typical "arkk" fashion yet again has gotten overly defensive and has started trying to be an e-thug tough guy know-it-all. Sorry, you have a shitty attitude, and nearly every post I see you make on these forums has you flying into some roid rage over everything. I'd guess you do a lot more than creatine to fuel that anger of yours. Either that, or sadly maybe you are just a gigantic insecure asshole--for your sake, and the people around you, I hope its roids, at least thats curable. Anyways....to your retarded post...

Stop being some dumbfuck who reads muscle magazines all day. A lot of people might just *gasp* actually do something else as far as physical activity goes on top of lift, and I was merely educating people to some of the negatives associated with PC. A lot of everyday folks might not research everything on creatine and think it will help them in all physical activity areas (which is dead wrong if you competitively run, swim, and do just about anything else endurance based, as it can be detrimental). Also, as someone who will be consulting people in the near future with such information in some capacity in my job when I finish my 2nd degree in this field--I personally feel it's important to just let people know what they're getting into with supplements/vitamins/etc. Sorry, I'll take the information the guys with PhDs from accredited universities who teach this as their job and what those "bullshit studies" conducted by real universities (and not some independent lab) have to say over your armchair internet "expertise".

If you had bothered to read my post, I said creatine seems to work in some individuals sure, but for some people it makes hardly any noticeable difference, which is why I said people need to be honest about gains with it. That's what those "bullshit studies" by you know, real doctors and universities have to say--that the variability of gains between people in controlled studies is a real cause of concern as far as being able to make some statement that PC will work for everyone equally (because it has shown it doesn't).

Here's a little blurb from a slightly reputable source on all things medicine. You might have heard of Johns Hopkins?

Originally Posted by Johns Hopkins

The latest to gain attention is creatine, a compound produced naturally in the body. Reports in the popular press suggest that taking creatine supplements may result in higher energy levels.

Studies do show that high-dose creatine supplements (approximately 20 g/day) can increase the amount of creatine in muscles. But performance data are mixed, with nearly as many studies showing negative results as positive ones. If creatine does work as an ergogenic aid, its benefits will most likely be seen in high-intensity short-burst athletes and in vegetarians.

Hmm. The most renowned medical institution on the planet that shares my skepticism vs Arkk91, internet fucking forum workout roid rage warrior armchair expert.


Anyways....for many, they seem to have a natural predisposition to take advantage of PC and that's where a lot of the controversy with PC supplements come into play. Thus, I said "try it" and be honest with yourself in a qualitative analysis, and see what (or more likely, if any) kind of gains you get because the jury in the medical community is still out. Why the skepticism? Because there are tons of studies showing gains from anywhere from 5%~, which would be admirable, to zero, or even negative--depending on who conducted it. Independent labs have a way of being funded by special interests into having positive results when testing Phosphocreatine. But, if you think you're going to be getting more than a couple percentage points in gains in your lifting due to creatine though, well, I have a lot of prime Florida swampland to sell you at a nice hefty price for being so fucking gullible. Sorry, but only something anabolic in nature like say, oh, steroids/HGH is going to make your claimed "significant" increases in strength. Creatines gains in a best case scenario is probably not even going to be noticeable outside of retaining water. The body already can only store very small amounts of creatine in reserve in muscle anyways, and you cannot increase those stores. When those reserves are full, it will just flush that shit right out of you.

Go ahead and believe whatever makes you sleep better at night though, and by all means keep e-raging arkk, because it is comedy. Call me crazy, but for my dollar, I'll keep with a good whey protein and a healthy balanced diet along with good workout gains.

[arkk91]

"Way to not even read my entire post, gg"

I sure as hell didn't read your latest novel.

Go back to wacking off to irrelevant medical studies from Johns Hopkins.

I'll go back to doing steroids, and being an asshole, and being an e-thug, and criticizing people, and everything else you say I did/do.

Have a good day creatine expert.

[seanwin]

Originally Posted by arkk91

It is a decent liver detoxifier. People think its the best and take copious amounts of it while they run anything liver toxic (oral steroids/prohormones/prosteroids) and think it is going to rid them of any liver woes. If only it were that easy.

Exactly. It'll never work as well as say some medicine would. I take it as its supposed to flush toxins. Watch the shit be systematically breaking down my liver.