2007 Spanish football league

Ikertxus · 09-29-2007, 05:12 AM

Seeing there is a premier league post I wanted to check if footie fans around the world followed the Spanish Liga and what they thought about it's outcome.

My thoughts:

Despite FC Barcelona's dubious start I sincerely think they are the best team atm, especially after their last 2 exhibitions against Sevilla and Zaragoza (both expected to end up in the top 6). I have no doubt Messi will be the number 1 player for the next 7-8 years if he keeps up with his form... in my opinion he has potential to be the best player ever and watching him play is pure joy. Yaya Toure brings balance to the midfield and is a hell of a kicker. The only downside I see is when their own top players have to be left out for the good of the team (Etoo, Ronaldinho, Henry, Messi all fight for 2 or 3 spots)

Real Madrid is up to a good start but they feel like a poorly developed team and depend on individual inspiration from their best players. You can't discuss the individual talent they display but they win their matches solely on situational brilliance. In my opinion they display the same faults and mistakes they have dragged for the last 6-7 years, no commitment and a team built around the two most overrated players in the last decade: Raul and Guti.

Valencia looks like it will mantain the philosophy that has kept it fighting for Champion League's positions playing italian-style football known as "Catenaccio", neutralize the offense and hope to win thanks to some inspiration from Silva (great potential) or Villa (decent killer but as most forwards depends on team assistance for excellence). My own opinion is that their main team structure is the same as the last 3-4 years and i believe they are kinda outdated, in nowadays football you have to modify teamplay every couple of years to have the surprise factor as lesser teams tend to study your well-known tactics and can easily neutralize you.

Sevilla has undoubtely displayed fantastic football in the last couple seasons but has to return to it's crude reality, I don't think it will keep up because of the same reasons I mentioned about Valencia, too little innovation makes you predictable.

Atletico Madrid has brought classy players to the team trying to recover it's glory days. It will be interesting to see if manager Aguirre can make the best of a team full of offensive talent, but severely lacking in the defensive department.

I don't expect many surprises from the rest of the teams other than the occasional unuspected win over the stronger team.

Special mention to Athletic Club de Bilbao, for hanging onto the First Division despite it's team philosophy (players born in the Basque Country or raised from the lesser squads), hopefully they won't suffer as much as last season with it's new assets Susaeta and Jon Velez although defence is scaringly naive.

Would like to know your opinions if you follow La Liga with as much intest as I do.

Grooverider · 09-29-2007, 07:23 AM

Barcelona aren't the team they were a few years ago. I find it unlikely that Henry will ever adapt to the Spanish game - particularly after moving from a team where he was exalted as the most important player, to a team where he is practically second string.

Ronaldinho is suffering from significant criticism currently, particularly to do with his partying - this was a problem before, when he played in the French league.

Eto'o is a good player, but.. well - I've never really liked his play that much.

Messi - Very good no doubt.

Anyhoo..

Akileese · 09-29-2007, 07:23 AM

I love the way Spanish footy is played, but it's SO hard to follow in the states (that and Bundesliga). The only part I can see is games on the three Spanish channels on mute.

I think Barce may have too much cooking in the kitchen with Eto'o, Henry, Messi, and Ronaldinho. I think it's a safe bet one of them will be sold in January and right now Ronaldinho is the popular choice (just like it was Eto'o last year).

Ikertxus · 09-29-2007, 11:19 AM

I have been a pro football player earning a decent salary playing for my local team and I barely had a glimpse of the 2ªB league (equivalent to 3rd division, a pit-hole most terams get stuck in). I got very unattached from superstar football when I realized that the competition was completely driven by unscrupulous agents working with the consent of all major clubs to keep the cash flowing by mantaining the competition interesting for fans. Anyway thats just me being a prick cos I never got my golden ticket hehe... to the discussion...

I t is true that barcelona had a dubious start, but if you watch their last 2 matches you will agree that the steamroller is back and it's bigger, better, and it's got the one boy that can change a match with minimal effort on his behalf, and when he gets cocky he can make any defence think twice about his career choice. I consider myself a fan of real football, no diving, no ref complaints, no limitations, just you against us, and I will make sure my presence will make a difference... and Messi plays that way... he will charge your defense again and again making the best of his inspirational form.

Just for reference, I barely saw Maradona before he got caught in the world cup for sniffing coke, seen the Pele clips that get repeated all over, watched a couple of Cruyff's world cup matches that got Holland to get noticed when people browsed the atlas, and seen Di Stefano's glorious decade brought football to the fan and started the football craze as we know it now. I have breathed football most of my life and out of tradition I am a Real Madrid fan, but I can say without a doubt that Messi is the most amazing player I have seen that has managed to go pro, I believe he will need an unforgettable World Cup appearance to get admitted in the top 5, and to me he could possibly the brightest star amongst the pack. Sorry, late night rambling, on to some more deep thoughts...

No doubt he lacks severely in the defensive and contention department, but as Johan Cruyff taught us, a match is all about scoring one more goal than yer adversary, thats all it takes to make yer fans happy.

Despite being a Real fan I gotta say I am so dissapointed with the lack of teamwork in the last 10 years, I envy Barcelona fans that get to see football at it's finest, plus they promote Messi last year and not content with that they bring 2 wonderkids into the first team to fight against Henry, Etoo and Ronaldinho for 2 spots in offense. Giovanni looks like he can make it to the top, depends on if he can challenge a strong sticky marker and come out a winner. Bojan has to live up to all the praise coming from reports from scouts sent by all major clubs, looks good, but as Giovanni he jumped from 3rd Division to the elite, and I think he's gonna have a trial by fire when he faces the real deal.

As a last comment I think Real Madrid is dragging the faulty and poor teamwork inherited from past seasons and personified in so-called superstars living from the past such as Raul. I am truely baffled about how he keeps making it into the startup formation with every manager, I must be missing something that happens behind doors because I haven't seen him bring anything useful to the team for the last 5 years, he's actually a handicap using up a spot better suited for upcoming talents such as Saviola, Higuain (I have faith in this kid) or even Soldado or Baptista(underused mean-machine and possibly the better option to link midfield with wingers and strikers). Sucha waste of talent in my eyes. Then we've got Guti, a remarkable piece of shit he is... he will go unnoticed for 80 minutes never helping in defense and just waiting for a miracle through-pass that will get the media wankers rubbing one off and spouting one-sided reviews the next day making him the hero that saved the day... if Schuster is gonna build the backbone of his team based on these two past glories then there is something terribly wrong in the management department. Sorry about the rant, but I really need to see some decent football from Real after a decade of Barcelona supremacy.

Akileese · 09-29-2007, 06:48 PM

I'll agree on Messi. There's a good chance he ends up being the greatest player I've ever seen. His defense needs work, but SO young for a star of his caliber.

2006-07 26 14
2007-08 5 5

26 appearances and 14 goals in 06/07 and 5 in 5 so far this year. Last year was really his coming out party as a scorer (he's always been an excellent passer and setup man). Barcelona, much like Arsenal, do a tremendous job of acquiring and developing young talent.

Also, not watching a TON of Spanish football, what are the main differences from the English game (which I follow near religiously). I know the Italian game is much slower, but I'm not too familiar with the overall style and pace of the Spanish game. I assume it's more like the English game than the Italian game but I could be wrong. Anyone care to educate me?

Ikertxus · 09-29-2007, 11:39 PM

Spanish football tends to value talent and skill over physique, most teams will push forward with short precise passes and will seldom use long passes unless it's a low end team and even then they will start with the short pass route. Long distance shots on goal are very rare and it's great to see one go in. Newcomers Yaya Toure and Sneijder thump it when they have a chance and it's a refreshing change.

Games tend to be very entertaining as both sides will let the other play with relative freedom, spanish fans will not put up with a defense that completely neutralizes any skillful ball management, just look at Real Madrid, last year's champion and the manager gets sacked because the chairman felt the team needed to excel with the ball, apart from a Liga Championship Cup...

Most critics around the world will favour la Liga over the Premiership and other leagues but as always it's a matter of opinion. I will not say one is better than the other, I enjoy both for different reasons, but I do think Spain manages to bring most of the top players around world, plus they stay at the top because of the freedom they have on the pitch.

Ether · 09-30-2007, 01:44 AM

Was Ronaldinho playing with Henry yesterday? Because I had my doubts about them playing together, but there goes Henry and scores a hat-trick. And Messi will most likely become the Zidane of the next generation, if not better. He is truly sensational.

lendarios · 10-02-2007, 07:28 AM

Barza 4 life

Rhuobhe · 10-11-2007, 07:44 AM

Anyone watch south american leagues like the Brasileiro? or Libertadores in general.

Can't get enough of it and then seeing them beat their top European counterparts in the FIFA Club World Cups.

Telrem · 10-11-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

I think Barce may have too much cooking in the kitchen with Eto'o, Henry, Messi, and Ronaldinho. I think it's a safe bet one of them will be sold in January and right now Ronaldinho is the popular choice (just like it was Eto'o last year).

What exactly are you basing this off?

Why would Barcelona sell one of the best players in the world mid way through the season? There is no way they can get someone of equal quality in to replace them. More to the point who could afford him? Or even want him since he's cup tied for the Champions League.

I would be amazed if Ronaldinho ever leaves Barcelona.

Akileese you talk some gash when it comes to Football

Akileese · 10-11-2007, 05:28 PM

Hey, when I wrote that, everyone was quickly pushing him out the door. I still think he's sold sooner rather than later. Why wouldn't you sell high on him? I feel Arsenal sold low on Henry (thought they should of sold him last year rather than this year because they could of gotten 25-30 for him instead 16 which is I believe what they got for him). Someone like Barcelona have a continuous flow of young tremendous talent coming through (as well as the ability to buy almost anyone), so why wouldn't you try to sell Ronaldinho to Milan?

You sell high on him and while it might hurt a bit in the short term, turning the team over to Messi next year is the right thing to do.

The only reason I can see them keeping him is for marketing purposes. But if the fans (not the media, they turn on everyone) keep turning on him like it SEEMS they are (I'm going by what friends and well-wishers who heavily follow footy in Spain are saying), then selling him is a decent choice. If you can get someone like Chelsea to retardedly pay 70-80 million pounds for him, why wouldn't you sell him? You mean to tell me you think Ronaldinho is worth more than 80 million pounds in warchest money? I'll fight that to the death.

Ikertxus · 10-12-2007, 01:37 AM

Actually the idea is not that far-fetched... Ronaldinho has had a hell of a bashing from spanish media because of the lack of commitment (skipping training, poor performance on the pitch) and even Cruyff advocated for a sell out during pre-season when he was priced high in the market. Barcelona has shown top form without him thanks to fresh blood stepping in (Iniesta, Giovanni, Bojan...), and they are still missing top-striker Etoo to recover from injury.

Rijkaard's team management will undergo scrutinous evaluation to see how he handles so much talent and conflicting egos. Should he stick with the current line-up relegating Ronaldinho and Etoo to substitutes, or break up a winning team giving into club interests?

Tricky situation that, in my opinion, could be solved by selling Ronaldinho while he's still worth the price... but mid-season transfers are always a matter of speculation.

Akileese · 10-12-2007, 10:28 AM

I think as long as you have Messi and Henry out there, Barce will win the league. I would keep Eto'o as a regular also but keeping Ronaldinho out there when the team is/has been doing fine without him proves they don't need him.

Telrem · 10-13-2007, 10:04 AM

£80 Million for Ronaldinho?

Nobody would pay that for him.

Not even Chelsea.

Akileese · 10-13-2007, 06:04 PM

Roman payed like, 40 million pounds for Sheva. What in your mind makes you think he wouldn't pay 80 for Ron? The guy really has no interest in turning a profit. He has more disposable income than probably everyone on this board combined AND I'm not even including the undeclared mob money he has. That being said, I think he'd go to Italy before England to one of the Milan's or Juventus.

09-29-2007, 05:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
Ikertxus Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 18 +0 Internets	2007 Spanish football league Seeing there is a premier league post I wanted to check if footie fans around the world followed the Spanish Liga and what they thought about it's outcome. My thoughts: Despite FC Barcelona's dubious start I sincerely think they are the best team atm, especially after their last 2 exhibitions against Sevilla and Zaragoza (both expected to end up in the top 6). I have no doubt Messi will be the number 1 player for the next 7-8 years if he keeps up with his form... in my opinion he has potential to be the best player ever and watching him play is pure joy. Yaya Toure brings balance to the midfield and is a hell of a kicker. The only downside I see is when their own top players have to be left out for the good of the team (Etoo, Ronaldinho, Henry, Messi all fight for 2 or 3 spots) Real Madrid is up to a good start but they feel like a poorly developed team and depend on individual inspiration from their best players. You can't discuss the individual talent they display but they win their matches solely on situational brilliance. In my opinion they display the same faults and mistakes they have dragged for the last 6-7 years, no commitment and a team built around the two most overrated players in the last decade: Raul and Guti. Valencia looks like it will mantain the philosophy that has kept it fighting for Champion League's positions playing italian-style football known as "Catenaccio", neutralize the offense and hope to win thanks to some inspiration from Silva (great potential) or Villa (decent killer but as most forwards depends on team assistance for excellence). My own opinion is that their main team structure is the same as the last 3-4 years and i believe they are kinda outdated, in nowadays football you have to modify teamplay every couple of years to have the surprise factor as lesser teams tend to study your well-known tactics and can easily neutralize you. Sevilla has undoubtely displayed fantastic football in the last couple seasons but has to return to it's crude reality, I don't think it will keep up because of the same reasons I mentioned about Valencia, too little innovation makes you predictable. Atletico Madrid has brought classy players to the team trying to recover it's glory days. It will be interesting to see if manager Aguirre can make the best of a team full of offensive talent, but severely lacking in the defensive department. I don't expect many surprises from the rest of the teams other than the occasional unuspected win over the stronger team. Special mention to Athletic Club de Bilbao, for hanging onto the First Division despite it's team philosophy (players born in the Basque Country or raised from the lesser squads), hopefully they won't suffer as much as last season with it's new assets Susaeta and Jon Velez although defence is scaringly naive. Would like to know your opinions if you follow La Liga with as much intest as I do.

09-30-2007, 01:44 AM	#7 (permalink)
Ether Make it so. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 422 -1 Internets	Was Ronaldinho playing with Henry yesterday? Because I had my doubts about them playing together, but there goes Henry and scores a hat-trick. And Messi will most likely become the Zidane of the next generation, if not better. He is truly sensational. __________________

10-13-2007, 10:04 AM	#14 (permalink)
Telrem Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 396 -1 Internets	£80 Million for Ronaldinho? Nobody would pay that for him. Not even Chelsea. __________________ Word to your Mother.

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09-29-2007, 07:23 AM	#2 (permalink)
Grooverider hildog Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 778 -1 Internets	Barcelona aren't the team they were a few years ago. I find it unlikely that Henry will ever adapt to the Spanish game - particularly after moving from a team where he was exalted as the most important player, to a team where he is practically second string. Ronaldinho is suffering from significant criticism currently, particularly to do with his partying - this was a problem before, when he played in the French league. Eto'o is a good player, but.. well - I've never really liked his play that much. Messi - Very good no doubt. Anyhoo..

09-29-2007, 11:19 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ikertxus Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 18 +0 Internets	I have been a pro football player earning a decent salary playing for my local team and I barely had a glimpse of the 2ªB league (equivalent to 3rd division, a pit-hole most terams get stuck in). I got very unattached from superstar football when I realized that the competition was completely driven by unscrupulous agents working with the consent of all major clubs to keep the cash flowing by mantaining the competition interesting for fans. Anyway thats just me being a prick cos I never got my golden ticket hehe... to the discussion... I t is true that barcelona had a dubious start, but if you watch their last 2 matches you will agree that the steamroller is back and it's bigger, better, and it's got the one boy that can change a match with minimal effort on his behalf, and when he gets cocky he can make any defence think twice about his career choice. I consider myself a fan of real football, no diving, no ref complaints, no limitations, just you against us, and I will make sure my presence will make a difference... and Messi plays that way... he will charge your defense again and again making the best of his inspirational form. Just for reference, I barely saw Maradona before he got caught in the world cup for sniffing coke, seen the Pele clips that get repeated all over, watched a couple of Cruyff's world cup matches that got Holland to get noticed when people browsed the atlas, and seen Di Stefano's glorious decade brought football to the fan and started the football craze as we know it now. I have breathed football most of my life and out of tradition I am a Real Madrid fan, but I can say without a doubt that Messi is the most amazing player I have seen that has managed to go pro, I believe he will need an unforgettable World Cup appearance to get admitted in the top 5, and to me he could possibly the brightest star amongst the pack. Sorry, late night rambling, on to some more deep thoughts... No doubt he lacks severely in the defensive and contention department, but as Johan Cruyff taught us, a match is all about scoring one more goal than yer adversary, thats all it takes to make yer fans happy. Despite being a Real fan I gotta say I am so dissapointed with the lack of teamwork in the last 10 years, I envy Barcelona fans that get to see football at it's finest, plus they promote Messi last year and not content with that they bring 2 wonderkids into the first team to fight against Henry, Etoo and Ronaldinho for 2 spots in offense. Giovanni looks like he can make it to the top, depends on if he can challenge a strong sticky marker and come out a winner. Bojan has to live up to all the praise coming from reports from scouts sent by all major clubs, looks good, but as Giovanni he jumped from 3rd Division to the elite, and I think he's gonna have a trial by fire when he faces the real deal. As a last comment I think Real Madrid is dragging the faulty and poor teamwork inherited from past seasons and personified in so-called superstars living from the past such as Raul. I am truely baffled about how he keeps making it into the startup formation with every manager, I must be missing something that happens behind doors because I haven't seen him bring anything useful to the team for the last 5 years, he's actually a handicap using up a spot better suited for upcoming talents such as Saviola, Higuain (I have faith in this kid) or even Soldado or Baptista(underused mean-machine and possibly the better option to link midfield with wingers and strikers). Sucha waste of talent in my eyes. Then we've got Guti, a remarkable piece of shit he is... he will go unnoticed for 80 minutes never helping in defense and just waiting for a miracle through-pass that will get the media wankers rubbing one off and spouting one-sided reviews the next day making him the hero that saved the day... if Schuster is gonna build the backbone of his team based on these two past glories then there is something terribly wrong in the management department. Sorry about the rant, but I really need to see some decent football from Real after a decade of Barcelona supremacy.

09-29-2007, 11:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
Ikertxus Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 18 +0 Internets	Spanish football tends to value talent and skill over physique, most teams will push forward with short precise passes and will seldom use long passes unless it's a low end team and even then they will start with the short pass route. Long distance shots on goal are very rare and it's great to see one go in. Newcomers Yaya Toure and Sneijder thump it when they have a chance and it's a refreshing change. Games tend to be very entertaining as both sides will let the other play with relative freedom, spanish fans will not put up with a defense that completely neutralizes any skillful ball management, just look at Real Madrid, last year's champion and the manager gets sacked because the chairman felt the team needed to excel with the ball, apart from a Liga Championship Cup... Most critics around the world will favour la Liga over the Premiership and other leagues but as always it's a matter of opinion. I will not say one is better than the other, I enjoy both for different reasons, but I do think Spain manages to bring most of the top players around world, plus they stay at the top because of the freedom they have on the pitch.

10-11-2007, 07:44 AM	#9 (permalink)
Rhuobhe all hail Rhuobhe Manslayer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 186 -11 Internets	Anyone watch south american leagues like the Brasileiro? or Libertadores in general. Can't get enough of it and then seeing them beat their top European counterparts in the FIFA Club World Cups.

10-12-2007, 01:37 AM	#12 (permalink)
Ikertxus Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 18 +0 Internets	Actually the idea is not that far-fetched... Ronaldinho has had a hell of a bashing from spanish media because of the lack of commitment (skipping training, poor performance on the pitch) and even Cruyff advocated for a sell out during pre-season when he was priced high in the market. Barcelona has shown top form without him thanks to fresh blood stepping in (Iniesta, Giovanni, Bojan...), and they are still missing top-striker Etoo to recover from injury. Rijkaard's team management will undergo scrutinous evaluation to see how he handles so much talent and conflicting egos. Should he stick with the current line-up relegating Ronaldinho and Etoo to substitutes, or break up a winning team giving into club interests? Tricky situation that, in my opinion, could be solved by selling Ronaldinho while he's still worth the price... but mid-season transfers are always a matter of speculation.