Bonds ties the record - Page 3

manslayer · 08-05-2007, 03:55 PM

Honestly, I think the 2 streaks/records that are most unlikely to be broken are Cy Young's 511 wins, and Van Der Meer pitching 2 consecutive no-hitters. The first due to the nature of pitchers not pitching every 3rd or 4th game like they used to and the second is just absurd. Only a few people even have 3 no-hitters in their entire career let alone consecutively.

Ham n Cheese · 08-05-2007, 03:59 PM

Of course nobody is going to break Cy Young's win total. Those pitching stats back then are just insane.

Ender4212 · 08-05-2007, 04:02 PM

I'll acknowledge Bonds as the true HR champ when he hits the next one. Like others have said, he broke no rule. If there is no testing policy and it's not banned, then how did he cheat?

Selig needs to take a large part of the blame for the whole steroid issue and he refuses to.

As far as Ruth goes, sure he was great. He also never competed against black players who were easily capable of doing the things he did. Chris Rock says that Ruth's HRs are all 'Affirmative Action' Home Runs...heh

Akileese · 08-05-2007, 04:33 PM

Well, due to changes in the way the game is played (which is the MAIN reason none of the "streaks" will probably ever be broken while milestones are very unsafe), Ripken's streak is universally looked at as untouchable which is why I didn't bother to mention it. I figured I'd take some that could be looked at as the top ones besides those. Hell, Tejada wasn't even halfway there before he broke his wrist and he was the only ACTIVE player remotely close. Unless we go back to the gladiator days of the pre 21st century (and we won't because players get payed too much and they don't want them to get hurt), The top 10 on that list is pretty much untouchable.

As for ignoring facts, most power hitters are pull hitters, so obviously Ruth wouldn't hit MOST of his home runs to center field. But seeing as how I'm not 100 years old, I wonder how many 470 foot pop outs he hit at Yankee stadium? I'm willing to bet the number is significant enough to pass Aaron (and probably put him well over 800 too). Fenway was like that too in the early 1900s before the Monster was there and there were plenty of other early 20th century parks that had those monstrous dead center and left/right center alleys. Polo Grounds is the first one that comes to mind. While it's true they weren't ALL like that, it was a good portion of them. Either way it's a moot point. It's merely opinion. I felt if Ruth played in the parks from the 1950s on, he would of had at least 850 home runs. It's just an opinion and I have absolutely no fact to base this on (nor does anyone since it was an extremely long time ago).

Astennu · 08-05-2007, 06:05 PM

Glavine will probably be the last pitcher to get 300 wins. Randy Johnson is only 16 away, but he's been hanging on for about three years now and I just don't see him ever being healthy enough to get 16 more wins.

Maddux, for my money, is the best regular season pitcher of the last 30 years. Some may argue Clemens, but being a Braves fan I saw him pitch every 5th day for 11 years. 1994 and 1995 were the two best years for a pitcher I ever witnessed when he went 35-8 with a 1.60 ERA. He pitched a total of 411.2 innings and gave up 12 home runs and had a 6:1 strikeout to walk ratio. The guy was a fucking machine. Shame the strike cut short the 94/95 seasons. If he wanted to pitch until he was 45 he'd have a shot to get near 400 wins (but he won't get it).

I'll take Smoltz as my postseason pitcher (if he's 100%).

Kirun · 08-05-2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

As for ignoring facts, most power hitters are pull hitters, so obviously Ruth wouldn't hit MOST of his home runs to center field. But seeing as how I'm not 100 years old, I wonder how many 470 foot pop outs he hit at Yankee stadium? I'm willing to bet the number is significant enough to pass Aaron (and probably put him well over 800 too).

And how many would Bond's have if he didn't play in Candlestick and AT&T park? Not to mention his 500+ more career walks than Ruth. The "what if" game is such a stupid argument when it comes to records.

Akileese · 08-05-2007, 08:12 PM

Well, for what it's worth, Bonds has made a pretty good living hitting HRs at ATT park (despite it being a pitchers park). Like i said about milestones, I don't care for them. The streaks are much more interesting to follow and there's a lot less what ifs.

Ham n Cheese · 08-05-2007, 08:14 PM

Yeah Bonds playing where he plays makes it that much more impressive to me. Though I read a quote on espn.com today that made me lol, even if it is an asshole thing

If I caught 756, I'd take a sharpie out of my pocket and draw on asterisk on it then hand it to Barry for free.
— Rubenonfire

Blumpster · 08-05-2007, 08:27 PM

Hahahah, nice. If I was Bonds I wouldn't even want the ball. Hell I'd give my bat to some kid.

Angerz · 08-05-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham n Cheese

Yeah Bonds playing where he plays makes it that much more impressive to me. Though I read a quote on espn.com today that made me lol, even if it is an asshole thing

If I caught 756, I'd take a sharpie out of my pocket and draw on asterisk on it then hand it to Barry for free.
— Rubenonfire

If that were to happen, it would probably be one of the most memorable sports moments ever.

Calamity · 08-06-2007, 12:34 AM

Fuck Barry Bonds and the needle he rode in on.

Mario Speedwagon · 08-06-2007, 01:09 AM

Barry Bonds is awesome.

kcxiv · 08-06-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astennu

Glavine will probably be the last pitcher to get 300 wins. Randy Johnson is only 16 away, but he's been hanging on for about three years now and I just don't see him ever being healthy enough to get 16 more wins.

Maddux, for my money, is the best regular season pitcher of the last 30 years. Some may argue Clemens, but being a Braves fan I saw him pitch every 5th day for 11 years. 1994 and 1995 were the two best years for a pitcher I ever witnessed when he went 35-8 with a 1.60 ERA. He pitched a total of 411.2 innings and gave up 12 home runs and had a 6:1 strikeout to walk ratio. The guy was a fucking machine. Shame the strike cut short the 94/95 seasons. If he wanted to pitch until he was 45 he'd have a shot to get near 400 wins (but he won't get it).

I'll take Smoltz as my postseason pitcher (if he's 100%).

I would have agree'd if Maddux retired a few years ago, but up until this year, Clemens has been dominite throughout his whole career. Maddux has been average for a few years now.

I would rate it like this

Clemens
Maddux
Nolan Ryan (how can you agrue with all his no hitters?)

Ham n Cheese · 08-06-2007, 12:08 PM

It's hard to say, you can't ignore Maddux's gold gloves. I think I'd lean towards Clemens just because of how dominate he still was in Houston, but he had some rocky years when Maddux was kicking ass too. Either one can win that argument.

manslayer · 08-06-2007, 01:43 PM

The thing with Nolan Ryan is even though he has a ridiculus number of strike outs and has thrown all those no hitters, he doesn't have a particularly impressive win percentage. Part of it is that he wasn't always on very good teams, but a large part of it was he walked a bunch of guys too. And he played a ton of seasons including early on when he was in a 4 man rotation. I'd certainly agree that he's possibly the hardest pitcher to hit, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's the one you'd want pitching a big game.

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08-05-2007, 03:55 PM	#31 (permalink)
manslayer El Presidente Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Deep Dark Cold Posts: 351 -5 Internets	Honestly, I think the 2 streaks/records that are most unlikely to be broken are Cy Young's 511 wins, and Van Der Meer pitching 2 consecutive no-hitters. The first due to the nature of pitchers not pitching every 3rd or 4th game like they used to and the second is just absurd. Only a few people even have 3 no-hitters in their entire career let alone consecutively.

08-05-2007, 03:59 PM	#32 (permalink)
Ham n Cheese You can betray me Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 8,675 +20 Internets	Of course nobody is going to break Cy Young's win total. Those pitching stats back then are just insane.

08-05-2007, 04:02 PM	#33 (permalink)
Ender4212 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 102 +2 Internets	I'll acknowledge Bonds as the true HR champ when he hits the next one. Like others have said, he broke no rule. If there is no testing policy and it's not banned, then how did he cheat? Selig needs to take a large part of the blame for the whole steroid issue and he refuses to. As far as Ruth goes, sure he was great. He also never competed against black players who were easily capable of doing the things he did. Chris Rock says that Ruth's HRs are all 'Affirmative Action' Home Runs...heh

08-05-2007, 06:05 PM	#35 (permalink)
Astennu Stand Ablaze Join Date: May 2003 Location: Richmond, Va Posts: 158	Glavine will probably be the last pitcher to get 300 wins. Randy Johnson is only 16 away, but he's been hanging on for about three years now and I just don't see him ever being healthy enough to get 16 more wins. Maddux, for my money, is the best regular season pitcher of the last 30 years. Some may argue Clemens, but being a Braves fan I saw him pitch every 5th day for 11 years. 1994 and 1995 were the two best years for a pitcher I ever witnessed when he went 35-8 with a 1.60 ERA. He pitched a total of 411.2 innings and gave up 12 home runs and had a 6:1 strikeout to walk ratio. The guy was a fucking machine. Shame the strike cut short the 94/95 seasons. If he wanted to pitch until he was 45 he'd have a shot to get near 400 wins (but he won't get it). I'll take Smoltz as my postseason pitcher (if he's 100%).

08-05-2007, 08:14 PM	#38 (permalink)
Ham n Cheese You can betray me Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 8,675 +20 Internets	Yeah Bonds playing where he plays makes it that much more impressive to me. Though I read a quote on espn.com today that made me lol, even if it is an asshole thing If I caught 756, I'd take a sharpie out of my pocket and draw on asterisk on it then hand it to Barry for free. — Rubenonfire

08-05-2007, 08:27 PM	#39 (permalink)
Blumpster . Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Washington Posts: 1,594 -2 Internets	Hahahah, nice. If I was Bonds I wouldn't even want the ball. Hell I'd give my bat to some kid.

08-06-2007, 12:34 AM	#41 (permalink)
Calamity Banned Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 106 +0 Internets	Fuck Barry Bonds and the needle he rode in on.

08-06-2007, 01:09 AM	#42 (permalink)
Mario Speedwagon Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: 3rd Place Posts: 1,016 +0 Internets	Barry Bonds is awesome.

08-06-2007, 12:08 PM	#44 (permalink)
Ham n Cheese You can betray me Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 8,675 +20 Internets	It's hard to say, you can't ignore Maddux's gold gloves. I think I'd lean towards Clemens just because of how dominate he still was in Houston, but he had some rocky years when Maddux was kicking ass too. Either one can win that argument.

08-06-2007, 01:43 PM	#45 (permalink)
manslayer El Presidente Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Deep Dark Cold Posts: 351 -5 Internets	The thing with Nolan Ryan is even though he has a ridiculus number of strike outs and has thrown all those no hitters, he doesn't have a particularly impressive win percentage. Part of it is that he wasn't always on very good teams, but a large part of it was he walked a bunch of guys too. And he played a ton of seasons including early on when he was in a 4 man rotation. I'd certainly agree that he's possibly the hardest pitcher to hit, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's the one you'd want pitching a big game.