FoH MA Practitioners

Zarcath · 07-18-2007, 05:31 AM

So what martial art do you folks practice?

I don't practice any contact MA, i'm not really big on sparring. I currently do Kyudo and Chinese Lion Dance. I've been gradually doing more sports as part of my "rehabilitation" from games to real world activities. Been doing Kyudo for 2 years and just started lion dance this year. Thinking of adding something else to the mix thats more practical in terms of defense.

I was thinking of either trying out Aikido or Muay Thai. Honestly I'm a little scared of Muay Thai because the conditioning involved seems rather intense. Does anyone have any experience with it?

And can anyone here explain to me the difference between Aikido and Judo?

Tallyn · 07-18-2007, 07:10 AM

Finding the right martial art for you depends predominantly on two things, 1) what you hope to gain from your training and 2) the quality of the schools that you have access to. If you're looking to feel like you can defend yourself in a relatively short amount of time I would recommend Muay Thai over Aikido. If you have a lot patience (which you appear to have if you study Kyudo =) and want an art that you can study fruitfully for several decades, take up Aikido.

I've studied Aikido (and Iaido) for about six years now. While it can be an effective style if you train properly (there are a lot of mediocre schools) the learning curve is very slow. It takes somewhere in the vicinity of three to four years of good practice to get to the point where you wouldn't get your ass kicked out of hand in a real fight vs a competent opponent. The reason for this is that Aikido focuses from the first day on training to a high degree of sophistication spacing, timing, angular movement, and balance manipulation. These are clearly elements of all martial arts but other systems often teach them implicitly through sparring or gloss them over during training in exchange for the ability to deliver power (ie, do damage) to the opponent. Aikido does basically the opposite, teaching the subtleties first and worrying about power later, hence the uptake is slow.

Aikido differs from Judo a couple of key ways. Both arts are derived from traditional Jiu Jutsu and share nearly all of their techniques. In Aikido most of the training is structured partnered practice against an attacker who is specifically not resisting you as strongly as they can, both to prevent injury and to allow you to get the technique cleanly and experience what that feels like. Much of Judo training focuses on full-resistance competition. However, to reduce serious injury much of the Jiu Jutsu joint manipulation and all of the striking techniques are removed from the Judo competitive repertoire. Also, Judoka practice ground fighting (a la BJJ), whereas Aikidoka do not. There's a nice discussion of the other differences here: JOHN BISHOP'S KAJUKENBO HOME PAGE - Judo, Jujitsu, Aikido What's the difference?

If you're still curious about Aikido, PM me. I'm happy to answer any questions you have. If you tell me where you live I could recommend a couple schools you could visit, as well.

Kaxmax · 07-18-2007, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Honestly I'm a little scared of Muay Thai because the conditioning involved seems rather intense. Does anyone have any experience with it?

Just go in knowing your shins are going to hurt. A lot. You can simulate by having a friend beat your lower legs with a bat for a few hours.

Mithandriel · 07-18-2007, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaxmax

Just go in knowing your shins are going to hurt. A lot. You can simulate by having a friend beat your lower legs with a bat for a few hours.

Most schools that are not into hardcore sparring and most are not for insurance reasons are going to make you pad up for sparring. You will still get bruised up but not so bad you cannot walk. Martial arts of almost any type is a contact sport so injuries will happen.

I've been studying American Kenpo Karate (Parker system) as well as doing kickboxing for around 4-5 years.

Kickboxing is mostly sparring and working on fundamentals. We use 16 oz gloves and shin pads but we don't force people to wear mouth pieces, head gear or even a cup.

It is all about respect and the people you spar with. We have a pretty good group with a core of around 5 or so that have been around for 5 years and we all know how to spar at full speed but not injure our partner.

I've dabbled in a few other forms of karate and honestly, I've found American Kenpo to be the most realistic in terms of learning to defend yourself.

Another MA form that has been getting a lot of play and also seems pretty good is Krav Maga which is the official defense training of the IDF (Isreali Defense Force). My gym has a school and what I've observed is it is more about striking first and brute force over finesse but it seems to be effective.

My only suggestion for someone that wants to learn to defend them self in a real life situation is to not go for Tai Kwon Do. Most schools do not teach effective self defense and focus more of point sparring and form over function.

As others have said, it does really come down to the school you join. The "best" system can still not prepare you properly if you have a subpar instructor or someone that does not know how to tailor instruction to each person's strengths and weaknesses.

Genjiro · 07-18-2007, 04:54 PM

To add to what some of the others said, go for Muay Thai. It is a very hard hitting style that has a ton of practical use. Over the years I've taken a lot of different martial arts as I believe its best to have exposure to different styles (personally taken chi lin chuan fa kung fu, kenpo, little bit of muay thai, and a little bit of jujitsu and aikido). I was also a bouncer my entire time in college so I have seen a lot of fights, brawls, and unfortunately had to participate in a few as well. I would keep the following things in mind when choosing to become well-rounded and being able to defend yourself, as these are things I noticed over the years.

1. Dont train extensively in ground fighting. While jujitsu and such look great on tv, I cant recall one fight I ever saw break out in years of bouncing where there was a 1 on 1 situation. While I did take a few months worth of ground fighting to give myself a comfort zone against the random street brawler if the fight ended up there, practical experience has shown me that grappling one guy is going to get you a beer bottle or a steel tipped boot to the head from one of his buddy/buddies. You don't want to ever end up on the ground in most real life situations outside of a ring, and remember that people will use eye gouging and all the other shit you cant get away with on tv when you're tied up with somebody. It's good to learn some of those basic techniques though, so you can be able to take care of yourself should you ever get tackled, pulled to the ground etc.

2. This should be number one, but Im too lazy to move things around. Find a good school. Do some research and find out what other students thought, how they were treated, how large the class size was, and more importantly what other people in the field think of the instructors. I will echo what the poster above me said, stay away from Tae Kwon Do unless you can find a really good reputable school. It's not a bad martial art per se, but especially in the states it has evolved more into an art based around winning points for Olympic style fighting (which is lame imo). The fight doesn't stop when you win a point out in the real world, and I've absolutely wrecked some of the guys I sparred with due to kung fu's close range striking with some of the muay thai elbow and knee strikes. TKD is far too range dependent and a good , quick opponent (even untrained) will adapt and move in close if they see you trying to repeatedly kick them.

I wish I didn't have to move away from the great muay thai teacher where I lived before, I was really starting to get good technique and power and would have loved to learn more. Lastly, let me emphasize this point. A lot of imported martial arts schools here were created for the purpose of making money first and foremost, not teaching, so keep this in mind if you are in the states. When I started in my kung fu class I didnt have a lot of money back then, and my instructor offered to teach me for free for just helping to keep the dojo clean, which pretty much told me right off the bat that he was in this for the right reasons.

3. Focus on what you're naturally good at, and work on improving what you are not. Sounds like basic common sense, but some people waste potential by trying to be perfect in everything, and not really pushing their natural talent when they are naturally amazing kickers or strikers respectively. We are not all built the same way, and that makes some people just lucky.

4. Know your limits. Don't ever be afraid to haul ass if you are simply outmatched, outnumbered, or if your life is in imminent danger. That doesn't make you a coward, it just makes you smart.

5. Don't abuse the knowledge you gain. I always liked the aikido philosophy for this, and if you know you have control of the situation, beating someone to a pulp goes against what martial arts is all about in my humble opinion. Only use the force necessary for the situation, think about how you could permanently affect someones entire life by overuse of force. Some people do stupid things, such as drinking too much and just making a bad mistake, so try and keep that in mind. I see a lot of people getting into martial arts for the wrong reasons nowadays.

I might be biased, but I think all the arts have good things to offer. I got a lot of great technique from karate and its more linear striking, added a ton of power with kung fu and its circular movements (which naturally generates more power), nice joint locking techniques from akido and my kung fu chin na, and nice close range striking techniques from the limited muay thai I took. I really cherish all of those things I learned. Learning to combine the best of different arts is what I really feel makes you a complete fighter. All arts have something to offer, just try and keep an open mind and good luck in your search!

Zarcath · 07-20-2007, 02:04 AM

interesting...

I think i will go with Muay Thai. The classes are at the same school as my lion dance and I know the instructor and students already in the class. The class size is pretty big though, like 20ish.

I met an Aikido instructor down here in Hawaii and he didn't seem very interested in taking on new students. Didn't get a friendly vibe from him. Visually it's a very impressive art.

woot! · 07-20-2007, 04:56 AM

I started training in Systema in April (russian martial art ; it is NOT sambo), and so far I like it a lot. It is based on the study of biomechanics, muscle and nervous reflexes, and also has a side about how to deal with fear management, breathing control and psychology in combat situations.
It is still quite unknown a lot of people, and it might not be easy to find instructors for this martial art (let alone a good one), but if you do, I encourage you to give it a shot. It is very practical oriented, if I had to compare it to anything else, the closest thing would be Krav Maga probably.
The training sessions can be quite intensive physicaly wise, but it is all in a good spirit. Sparing is not limited to one oponent, in fact quite often you will have to deal with several attackers at once.
I am very lucky of having a realy excellent instructor (he has been teaching systema for almost 10 years now), who has a quite good knowledge of other martial arts too. He was instructor in kick-boxing (he was part of the national lebaneese team), kyokushinkai and kali, and also practiced thai boxing and wing chun.

Zarcath · 07-20-2007, 07:42 AM

I watched some Krav Maga videos on youtube and it seems pretty damn effective. I don't follow local MMAs but does anyone practice it in the ring or is it too hardcore?

woot! · 07-20-2007, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarcath

I watched some Krav Maga videos on youtube and it seems pretty damn effective. I don't follow local MMAs but does anyone practice it in the ring or is it too hardcore?

It is not about beeing "hardcore". The fact is that it is really not designed for competition at all, and it has never been it's purpose. The point is to learn how to be efficient in physicaly disabling your opponent. Some of the very first things your learn are to hit your oponent in the groin or throat, and how to cause physical injuries.

Tallyn · 07-20-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarcath

I met an Aikido instructor down here in Hawaii and he didn't seem very interested in taking on new students. Didn't get a friendly vibe from him.

Yeah. As much as I love Aikido you do not want to get entangled in a school with indifferent instructors. Which school did you visit and who was the teacher? I'm curious who he's affiliated with.

07-18-2007, 05:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
Zarcath Lead Farmer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hawaii Posts: 5,054 +11 Internets	FoH MA Practitioners* So what martial art do you folks practice? I don't practice any contact MA, i'm not really big on sparring. I currently do Kyudo and Chinese Lion Dance. I've been gradually doing more sports as part of my "rehabilitation" from games to real world activities. Been doing Kyudo for 2 years and just started lion dance this year. Thinking of adding something else to the mix thats more practical in terms of defense. I was thinking of either trying out Aikido or Muay Thai. Honestly I'm a little scared of Muay Thai because the conditioning involved seems rather intense. Does anyone have any experience with it? And can anyone here explain to me the difference between Aikido and Judo? Last edited by Zarcath : 08-08-2007 at 06:23 AM.

07-18-2007, 07:10 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tallyn Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 272 +1 Internets	Finding the right martial art for you depends predominantly on two things, 1) what you hope to gain from your training and 2) the quality of the schools that you have access to. If you're looking to feel like you can defend yourself in a relatively short amount of time I would recommend Muay Thai over Aikido. If you have a lot patience (which you appear to have if you study Kyudo =) and want an art that you can study fruitfully for several decades, take up Aikido. I've studied Aikido (and Iaido) for about six years now. While it can be an effective style if you train properly (there are a lot of mediocre schools) the learning curve is very slow. It takes somewhere in the vicinity of three to four years of good practice to get to the point where you wouldn't get your ass kicked out of hand in a real fight vs a competent opponent. The reason for this is that Aikido focuses from the first day on training to a high degree of sophistication spacing, timing, angular movement, and balance manipulation. These are clearly elements of all martial arts but other systems often teach them implicitly through sparring or gloss them over during training in exchange for the ability to deliver power (ie, do damage) to the opponent. Aikido does basically the opposite, teaching the subtleties first and worrying about power later, hence the uptake is slow. Aikido differs from Judo a couple of key ways. Both arts are derived from traditional Jiu Jutsu and share nearly all of their techniques. In Aikido most of the training is structured partnered practice against an attacker who is specifically not resisting you as strongly as they can, both to prevent injury and to allow you to get the technique cleanly and experience what that feels like. Much of Judo training focuses on full-resistance competition. However, to reduce serious injury much of the Jiu Jutsu joint manipulation and all of the striking techniques are removed from the Judo competitive repertoire. Also, Judoka practice ground fighting (a la BJJ), whereas Aikidoka do not. There's a nice discussion of the other differences here: JOHN BISHOP'S KAJUKENBO HOME PAGE - Judo, Jujitsu, Aikido What's the difference? If you're still curious about Aikido, PM me. I'm happy to answer any questions you have. If you tell me where you live I could recommend a couple schools you could visit, as well. Last edited by Tallyn : 07-18-2007 at 07:25 AM.

07-20-2007, 04:56 AM	#7 (permalink)
woot! Jesus with laser Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 517 +3 Internets	I started training in Systema in April (russian martial art ; it is NOT sambo), and so far I like it a lot. It is based on the study of biomechanics, muscle and nervous reflexes, and also has a side about how to deal with fear management, breathing control and psychology in combat situations. It is still quite unknown a lot of people, and it might not be easy to find instructors for this martial art (let alone a good one), but if you do, I encourage you to give it a shot. It is very practical oriented, if I had to compare it to anything else, the closest thing would be Krav Maga probably. The training sessions can be quite intensive physicaly wise, but it is all in a good spirit. Sparing is not limited to one oponent, in fact quite often you will have to deal with several attackers at once. I am very lucky of having a realy excellent instructor (he has been teaching systema for almost 10 years now), who has a quite good knowledge of other martial arts too. He was instructor in kick-boxing (he was part of the national lebaneese team), kyokushinkai and kali, and also practiced thai boxing and wing chun. __________________ Praise Xenu

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07-18-2007, 04:54 PM	#5 (permalink)
Genjiro We bawlin boi! Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,472	To add to what some of the others said, go for Muay Thai. It is a very hard hitting style that has a ton of practical use. Over the years I've taken a lot of different martial arts as I believe its best to have exposure to different styles (personally taken chi lin chuan fa kung fu, kenpo, little bit of muay thai, and a little bit of jujitsu and aikido). I was also a bouncer my entire time in college so I have seen a lot of fights, brawls, and unfortunately had to participate in a few as well. I would keep the following things in mind when choosing to become well-rounded and being able to defend yourself, as these are things I noticed over the years. 1. Dont train extensively in ground fighting. While jujitsu and such look great on tv, I cant recall one fight I *ever* saw break out in years of bouncing where there was a 1 on 1 situation. While I did take a few months worth of ground fighting to give myself a comfort zone against the random street brawler if the fight ended up there, practical experience has shown me that grappling one guy is going to get you a beer bottle or a steel tipped boot to the head from one of his buddy/buddies. You don't want to ever end up on the ground in most real life situations outside of a ring, and remember that people will use eye gouging and all the other shit you cant get away with on tv when you're tied up with somebody. It's good to learn some of those basic techniques though, so you can be able to take care of yourself should you ever get tackled, pulled to the ground etc. 2. This should be number one, but Im too lazy to move things around. Find a good school. Do some research and find out what other students thought, how they were treated, how large the class size was, and more importantly what other people in the field think of the instructors. I will echo what the poster above me said, stay away from Tae Kwon Do unless you can find a really good reputable school. It's not a bad martial art per se, but especially in the states it has evolved more into an art based around winning points for Olympic style fighting (which is lame imo). The fight doesn't stop when you win a point out in the real world, and I've absolutely wrecked some of the guys I sparred with due to kung fu's close range striking with some of the muay thai elbow and knee strikes. TKD is far too range dependent and a good , quick opponent (even untrained) will adapt and move in close if they see you trying to repeatedly kick them. I wish I didn't have to move away from the great muay thai teacher where I lived before, I was really starting to get good technique and power and would have loved to learn more. Lastly, let me emphasize this point. A lot of imported martial arts schools here were created for the purpose of making money first and foremost, not teaching, so keep this in mind if you are in the states. When I started in my kung fu class I didnt have a lot of money back then, and my instructor offered to teach me for free for just helping to keep the dojo clean, which pretty much told me right off the bat that he was in this for the right reasons. 3. Focus on what you're naturally good at, and work on improving what you are not. Sounds like basic common sense, but some people waste potential by trying to be perfect in everything, and not really pushing their natural talent when they are naturally amazing kickers or strikers respectively. We are not all built the same way, and that makes some people just lucky. 4. Know your limits. Don't ever be afraid to haul ass if you are simply outmatched, outnumbered, or if your life is in imminent danger. That doesn't make you a coward, it just makes you smart. 5. Don't abuse the knowledge you gain. I always liked the aikido philosophy for this, and if you know you have control of the situation, beating someone to a pulp goes against what martial arts is all about in my humble opinion. Only use the force necessary for the situation, think about how you could permanently affect someones entire life by overuse of force. Some people do stupid things, such as drinking too much and just making a bad mistake, so try and keep that in mind. I see a lot of people getting into martial arts for the wrong reasons nowadays. I might be biased, but I think all the arts have good things to offer. I got a lot of great technique from karate and its more linear striking, added a ton of power with kung fu and its circular movements (which naturally generates more power), nice joint locking techniques from akido and my kung fu chin na, and nice close range striking techniques from the limited muay thai I took. I really cherish all of those things I learned. Learning to combine the best of different arts is what I really feel makes you a complete fighter. All arts have something to offer, just try and keep an open mind and good luck in your search!

07-20-2007, 02:04 AM	#6 (permalink)
Zarcath Lead Farmer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hawaii Posts: 5,054 +11 Internets	interesting... I think i will go with Muay Thai. The classes are at the same school as my lion dance and I know the instructor and students already in the class. The class size is pretty big though, like 20ish. I met an Aikido instructor down here in Hawaii and he didn't seem very interested in taking on new students. Didn't get a friendly vibe from him. Visually it's a very impressive art.

07-20-2007, 07:42 AM	#8 (permalink)
Zarcath Lead Farmer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hawaii Posts: 5,054 +11 Internets	I watched some Krav Maga videos on youtube and it seems pretty damn effective. I don't follow local MMAs but does anyone practice it in the ring or is it too hardcore?