[NFL] Michael "Woof Woof" Vick indicted

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Camerous

I let a friend read what you wrote when I told him some of the stupid shit you were saying and he brought up a great point.

What does the killing of people in wars have to do with Michael Vick torturing dogs exactly?

The fact that we don't think twice about how our country was founded on the blood of millions of innocents but we are ready to torture and execute Vick because he mistreated some dogs is pretty relevant I would say.

Perhaps the fact that some people considered other 'people' to be subhuman and could justify mistreating them shows that others don't hold even animals in the same regard as you. Maybe Vick sees dogs as soulless beasts.. the fact that he doesn't see animals the same way as you doesn't make him psychotic.


And I would not call those 'wars', when you show up in metal armor with guns and slaughter men, women, and children wearing nothing but loincloths and spears.. it is not a war.

[Brutul Tarew Marr]

Twobit Whore, you are a moron. Keep up the willful ignorance and bad analogies.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Brutul Tarew Marr

Twobit Whore, you are a moron. Keep up the willful ignorance and bad analogies.

Will do chief.

Good luck getting Vick executed.

[James]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Perhaps the fact that some people considered other 'people' to be subhuman and could justify mistreating them shows that others don't hold even animals in the same regard as you. Maybe Vick sees dogs as soulless beasts.. the fact that he doesn't see animals the same way as you doesn't make him psychotic.

Yes it does. I mean, barring all the psychology mumbo jumbo about like-human responses and the such, he was raised in a society where dogfighting is not only illegal, but considered barbarous at best. He was taught these virtues from the day he was born until the day he was arrested for it, and still disregarded them as meaningless for his own twisted pleasure. How is that not psychotic?

The bottom line here is not killing animals. In this society, licensed sport hunting is very much legal. Dog fighting, in any shape or form, is very much illegal. That is a key difference here. Now, what other societies in other parts of the world or timeline may have done is of no concern to us -- just that what we do in this one is what defines us. Dog fighting is a felony. Michael Vick commited at least one felony and should be punished accordingly. It was not a capital felony, so I don't think the death penalty is warranted, but significant time in jail should be applicable.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by James

Yes it does. I mean, barring all the psychology mumbo jumbo about like-human responses and the such, he was raised in a society where dogfighting is not only illegal, but considered barbarous at best. He was taught these virtues from the day he was born until the day he was arrested for it, and still disregarded them as meaningless for his own twisted pleasure. How is that not psychotic?

Can we be sure of that? He is a thug. A gangsta'. He has probably been exposed to this activity all his life. Sure the 'man' might say it is bad, but that doesn't necessarily make it so. I am sure many people here smoke pot... the man tells us that is wrong too, but people do it and they don't think it is so bad. Yes, another analogy but it fits. If you grow up with something you will go by that more than you will follow what the 'man' tells you.

I think dogfighting is sick, you think it is sick. Many people think it is sick.. but that doesn't mean everyone does. That doesn't make them psychotic or evil. Does it warrant punishment? Of course, strict punishment.. but it doesn't warrant death.

[Camerous]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

I think dogfighting is sick, you think it is sick. Many people think it is sick.. but that doesn't mean everyone does. That doesn't make them psychotic or evil. Does it warrant punishment? Of course, strict punishment.. but it doesn't warrant death.

So what you are saying is if a person is raised up that raping or killing or torture is ok it is ok and not evil? I believe the law has a saying for this... "Ignorance of the law is not an acceptable excuse."

[James]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

I think dogfighting is sick, you think it is sick. Many people think it is sick.. but that doesn't mean everyone does. That doesn't make them psychotic or evil.

Again, yes it does. Can we be sure that Michael Vick was exposed to the line of thought that dog fighting = fucking wrong? Yes, if he was raised in America his whole life, we can be reasonably sure. As a responsible adult, he should have known better. As a national sports star, giving the image to kids that breaking the law is 'cool' because their sports hero did it is criminally irresponsible. At the bottom line (and at your hypothetical very best), he doesn't think the same way the rest of his society thinks.

Smoking pot is a misdemeanor and not considered on the same level as a felony. As a society, we are closer to legalizing marijuana than we are to making it a felony. Contrary to that, dog fighting started out in the Americas very much legal and considered a sport, and has grown to become as distasteful and hated as it is today. While you are partly right -- it IS a bad analogy -- it simply does not fit.

[Sean]

It's not just that he participated in dogfighting dude - it's that he personally tortured many, many dogs until they died.

If that isn't fucking psychotic then I don't know what is.

People with brains that are that miss-wired and that deviant need to be put the fuck down.

[Moontayle]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

The Incas and Aztecs didn't want to leave either.

I'd say the Spanish did a good job of culling the herd there. Which is a shame because all signs point to both civilizations having a greater understanding of the cosmos than some of the more "advanced" civilizations that existed centuries before them and since.

But that's neither here nor there. And to add fuel to the fire... Some Asian countries eat dog. Go get hung up on that for a few minutes and get back to us.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Camerous

So what you are saying is if a person is raised up that raping or killing or torture is ok it is ok and not evil? I believe the law has a saying for this... "Ignorance of the law is not an acceptable excuse."

It wouldn't make them immune to the law dumbass, but if someone was raised from birth to think it was okay and he got caught it doesn't mean he did it because he was psychotic and evil... he will still face the same punishment as the person who did it that was evil.

[James]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

but if someone was raised from birth to think it was okay and he got caught it doesn't mean he did it because he was psychotic and evil

Yes it does. To borrow a much used practice on this forum *cough*inthisthread*cough*, let's take the example to the extreme. What if he was raised to believe that double teaming his mom, who is chained and locked to a rollout board underneath a random bed in the house, in order to procreate was right and just? And that those outside of his bloodline were impure, tainted, and evil? Would that not make him psychotic? Sure, he'd face the same tune as any other dude that decided to DP his mom's asshole with his brother, but the point is you have to be *fucking crazy* to do that shit.

This argument can be applied to the situation at hand -- our society has evolved to the point where torturing animals is considered morally wrong at best, and psychotic in many cases. Just because Michael Vick was raised with the belief that it was 'ok' does not mean that it is, in fact, 'ok' by any sense of the word. Our society sees it as psychotic behavior, and thus it is. Bottom line.

[Blumpster]

Twobit is making a pretty valid point. I mean, not 100 years ago Americans enslaved black people. For a good while nobody thought it was that a bad of thing, but eventually it turned out that slavery didn't work in our society. The Mayans sacrificed tons of people to the sun. Pretty standard deal for them. The Vikings raped their fallen adversaries, pretty fucked up shit and to most anyone but Vikings, yah, was pretty crazy, but for them it was just badassery.

I'm pretty sure 100 years in the future we'll look on back something considered 'normal' for this time frame and have it be deemed some terrible deed. In fact, it's already happening...tobacco smoking. As a society we've deemed dog fighting to be immoral and illegal, but for a lot of people that sort of thing isn't really wrong. Animals have been mistreated, abused, and killed for tons of different reasons in hundreds of different societies. You can only define right/wrong, good/evil when you place arbitrary boundaries on things that weren't meant to have any. Anything in this world fair game and the whole idea behind good and evil is ridiculous at best. There's no such thing. It's all the same.

[Blumpster]

Originally Posted by James

Our society sees it as psychotic behavior, and thus it is. Bottom line.

Exactly. By society's standards, yes, he's got something fucked up with him to be unable to differentiate between our ideas of right and wrong.

[Cybsled]

lawl

YTMND - 300TMND: This. Is. BARBARIC!!!

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The Incas and the Aztecs were far from "innocent", Small Pox also did most of the work, even if the Spanish had been happy happy guys 1/2 of North America was screwed as soon as they showed up.