Tour De France 2007

[Kaxmax]

Jesus, at this rate is there going to be anyone left to finish? We should form Team FoH next year and enter. We'd finish 3 weeks later than everyone else, but we'd win by default due to being the only team that passes the doping tests.

[Kugbok_Fennin]

Originally Posted by Kaxmax

Jesus, at this rate is there going to be anyone left to finish? We should form Team FoH next year and enter. We'd finish 3 weeks later than everyone else, but we'd win by default due to being the only team that passes the doping tests.

I would not pass a doping test.

[Blumpster]

Originally Posted by Kugbok_Fennin

Hell the guy almost died of cancer, I can assure you he doped up to recover from that...

Of course you can, he said he did, and most all cancer patients receive blood transfusions or EPO because radiation treatment destroys red blood cells. It's nice to think Lance didn't cheat because all the good things he's done, and how big of a role model he is. There's only a few people who probably know the truth, and if he actually did is EPO/blood transfusions or whatever else we'll never know about it.

[Eomer]

A huge, recent red flag for me was his defense of Floyd Landis. I don't know why he felt the need to publicly comment on him, but he did, and stank of "maybe if I say something nice about Floyd now, he won't tell everyone that we doped together when he inevitably goes down and I can pretend to be all outraged and disapointed."

[Akileese]

The only way to fix cycling is to let them all dope and use as much steroids as they want. It would seem like less of a joke if everyone does it.

[Arbuste]

Originally Posted by Eomer

A huge, recent red flag for me was his defense of Floyd Landis. I don't know why he felt the need to publicly comment on him, but he did, and stank of "maybe if I say something nice about Floyd now, he won't tell everyone that we doped together when he inevitably goes down and I can pretend to be all outraged and disapointed."

I don't think it's that way. Lance Amstrong has been very vocal about the issue. Basically, he thinks cycling is fine as it is. He never said clearly that he supported illegal drugs using, but he knows that 95% (or 100) of the pros take drugs, and that nothing is ever going to change that fact. And that trying too hard to fight it is hurting the whole sport. He's been criticizing every guy who tried to speak against doping and more specifically about the guys who tried to spill some real beans. And Lance A. has (or used to have) a lot of influence.

I like to believe it's somewhat honest. The 2nd guy who was tested positive, just after Vinokourov, admitted to using testosterone. The same morning, he was with 40 other Tour de France participants, sitting on the floor, refusing to start the race, to protest against Vinokourov and doping and cheating in general. 12 hours later, he was sleeping in jail.

[Eomer]

That's some pretty fucked up logic. "Somewhat honest"? How in the fuck do you figure. He's denied repeatedly every accusation of doping, supports Landis who was obviously doping, and he's "somewhat honest"? What the hell?

If Armstrong wanted to make a difference, he'd be loudly complaining about the lack of doping controls in cycling. But he knows damn well if he opens his mouth in that respect, the spotlight would turn to him and his past, and the scrutiny would destroy the legacy he's sculpted of himself, a legacy that will be worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

[Grooverider]

There isn't a cyclist on the tour who hasn't used performance enhancing drugs, and everybody knows it. It's the only way to be competitive in the sport any longer.

[Szlia]

Originally Posted by Arbuste

The real shame is that people are surprised. The truth is that the Tour de France is the only competition where they really try to catch dopers. After a couple scandals, they got into their heads they could "clean" their sport. Now, I bet they wish they never looked so hard into it. I don't think they do in the Giro d'Italia and the spanish one. They certainly don't in Tennis or Soccer, and not so much in athletism... And nobody actually cares.

I doubt Tennis players get tested after every game they play, but they certainly are tested by surprise every now and then. I remember Federer being asked about that (at the time of a controvery involving Nadal and some spanish doctor) and he said that it was virtualy impossible for anyone in the top 10 to use substances considering how often they are tested. Note also that the nature of the game, that mixes mental strength, strategy, technicity and "athleticity" makes it less interesting for substance abuse than sports of pure performance or that require tremendous endurance.

[Arbuste]

Originally Posted by Eomer

That's some pretty fucked up logic. "Somewhat honest"? How in the fuck do you figure. He's denied repeatedly every accusation of doping, supports Landis who was obviously doping, and he's "somewhat honest"? What the hell?

If Armstrong wanted to make a difference, he'd be loudly complaining about the lack of doping controls in cycling. But he knows damn well if he opens his mouth in that respect, the spotlight would turn to him and his past, and the scrutiny would destroy the legacy he's sculpted of himself, a legacy that will be worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

Armstrong did take a shitload of drugs. He only used the best doctor available, and (almost) didn't get caught. The fact is that testing is very costly and that they do not test for everything.
Armstrong, as I understand it, is not against doping. He will and can never admit that he is a doper, but he knows that fighting doping too hard is going to kill his sport.
I don't think he wants to make any difference. He actually wants his sport not to change. He thinks that Landis is a great champion. Everybody is doing drugs. He got caught and (might) lose everything. Isn't that unfair? When everybody is doped, isn't the winner still the greatest champion? Ok, it might be fucked up logic.
Anyway, Armstrong is safe now. His ass is covered and nothing can happen to him anymore. He was tested positive, but the official were unable to find and test the 2nd blood sample. It disappeared, or it was used too late.

Originally Posted by Szlia

I doubt Tennis players get tested after every game they play, but they certainly are tested by surprise every now and then. I remember Federer being asked about that (at the time of a controvery involving Nadal and some spanish doctor) and he said that it was virtualy impossible for anyone in the top 10 to use substances considering how often they are tested. Note also that the nature of the game, that mixes mental strength, strategy, technicity and "athleticity" makes it less interesting for substance abuse than sports of pure performance or that require tremendous endurance.

I'm not a specialist, but I think there's a lot of mental strength, technic and strategy involved in cycling. And playing 5 sets pretty much everyday for 2 weeks against guys like Nadal in the French or Australian Opens (kinda warm under the sun, sometimes) does require tremendous endurance. Same could be said about Soccer. They run a lot and play many games a week.
Anyway, in Tennis, and in that you are right, the most popular drugs are "mental" enhancers. Stuff that increases your concentration, helps you control stress and heartbeat. Beta-bloquants, cocaïne, anti-anxiety stuff...

And I'm sure Federer would say that. Landis, Vinokourov and Armstrong would as well, if their sport had any credibility left.

Again, it's a fact that Cycling is trying harder than any sport to fight doping. And my opinion that other major sports don't try very hard.

[Kugbok_Fennin]

I'm absolutely amazed that the guys even would consider taking any banned substance, considering how strict the rule system is.

These riders are tested constantly, they have to report their where-abouts at all times, they are under constant media scrutiny, and in most cases they are rarely alone. Yet, they somehow still manage to dope, some get caught, some don't. How would the UCI get tougher to stop this?

[Arbuste]

The explanation is quite simple. There is not one test to bind them all. There is one test for each and every possible drug. And then, there are other, totally different tests for non-drug doping techniques (like blood transfusion, and the tests are different depending on where the blood comes from.) Some of those tests require urine, others require saliva, hair or blood.

When you get tested, they don't test for everything. Either the dopers and their doctors know what they are going to be tested for (and sometimes are wrong), or they take chances. Odds are they won't get caught.

Some tests are practically impossible to run. Auto-transfusion is a very effective doping technique. It is technically possible to detect, but it requires some hard to obtain protein (or something like that.) It's too expensive, and they don't test for it. If, one year, they start systematically testing for it without warning, they'll get 50 positive.

All the doping used to be managed by the team staff and the team doctors. Now, with all the scandals, most teams are very vocal against doping. Yet, they demand the same performances as before.

[Araxen]

I thoroughly enjoyed the tour this year despite all the doping crap. Stage 19 was just awesome at the end. It doesn't get any better than that. Congrats to the top 3, they've earned their spots.

[Furism]

The Tour happened to pass near the place I was staying on vacation. So I went to check it out.

The caravan. Cars that throw you stupid stuff (keyrings, hats, that kind of shit) so that when the cycles pass in front of you with the cameras, you act as a standing advertising panel.

These photos were taken the day Rasmussen was fired by his team.

A rolling boat!


Homer would get the yellow shirt if it got him a donut.


Damn Aussies.


Ah, good ol' French classics.


The official and only horse races company had a nice car.


Shouldn't it be "Euro tires" ?


Worst. Job. Ever. It was about 35°C outside, so a good 45° in the sun, and god knows how much inside the cow costume.


These were the leaders. They looked in my direction too, ohmygodohmygodohmygod!


I didn't take pictures of the pack, because I made a video instead. I'll post the link as soon as Youtube is done doing its youtubing to the file.

Edit: Ok, here's the video of the pack. Yes, I'm a terrible cameraman, and yes, the compression is shitty. The group of people at the beginning were a bunch of rednecks I just couldn't not film.

[EmiliaEQ]

99% of Pro Sportsmen take drugs, thinking otherwise is beeing naive.

Its not about competing, its about wining.
Now there are some sports that require less effort thus require less/no drugs.
Golf would be a good example, but when the stakes is fame and millions of $.
You do whatever is necessairy to win.