Sammy Sosa, Hall of Fame?

[Ham n Cheese]

Does he belong?

[Blumpster]

Well, the 500 club used to be a guaranteed spot in the Hall of Fame. With all the steroid shit going on in the last decade, McGwire will never get in, Palmeiro will never get in, Bonds will never get in (the Hall of Fame board is full of douche bags), and Sosa will never get in. The only player at 500+ currently that will stand a chance is Griffey Jr.

[Twobit Whore]

Bonds will get in. Palmeiro and Big Mac probably not. Sosa will get in too.

[kcxiv]

Yes, he should. He's never been busted as far as steroids go. He did have the corked bat thing, but they inspected 100 something of his bats, all of them legal. So, i can forgive him for that. Now if he had more corked bats in that 100plus they inspected then i would be iffy. Sosa and McGwire home run chase of '98 was just so damn awesome to watch. They say that actually saved baseball.

Hell yes from me.

[Burkex]

I say yes to Bonds, Sammy, and Big Mac. Those guys saved baseball. There was a players strike and lotta free agency and not that much excitement in the game. Baseball was getting boring as hell for awhile and people were complaining about the lengths of the games, it almost started to turn into hockey where nobody watched it anymore but the diehard fans. But that home run race between Sammy and Big Mac drew national headlines and people tuned into the games and were excited again from baseball. 600 homers is worthy of the HoF.

As for the steroid shit, it is baseballs fault they should have tested for it better. They didn't properly test the players and now there is speculation (not fact) as to whether these guys used roids and now they want to punish them for it. That is garbage. I am not condoning cheating either, but I believe that this was baseballs fault, so now they have to live with it.

[Aegdaien]

Yes for Bonds and Sammy. I don't see McGwire and Palmeiro getting in.

[Twobit Whore]

I think Big Mac would have a much greater chance if he hadn't blown the congressional hearing. He basically pleaded the 5th and said I did it but I won't tell you I did it.

If he had either flat-out denied it (even if he lied) or maybe if he had even admitted it then his chances would be better.

[Thorpe]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

Sosa and McGwire home run chase of '98 was just so damn awesome to watch. They say that actually saved baseball.

I can still remember watching McGwire's 70th. Whatever station I was watching stopped their programming and switched to show his at-bat. I can't recall a single other time something similar has happened. I agree that McGwire and Sosa's race saved baseball as we know it.

[Ham n Cheese]

Yeah I remember watching the one that broke the record. I'm pretty sure they were even playing the cubs and he walks over and hugs Sammy. That was an amazing year for baseball.

That said if I had to vote I'd vote yes to him and Big Mac and would have a hard time with Palmeiro. Bonds is a no brainer to me (yes).

[Pharazon]

Forget testing, baseball didn't even have a fucking rule against using steroids back when these guys were taking them. How is it cheating when they aren't breaking a rule? Are they supposed to see into the future? They were breaking a law, but not a rule of baseball at the time.

What if MLB decides in 10 years that creatine or some other supplement gives nearly as much of an unfair advantage as steroids, so they decide to ban that too. Would it be fair to look back to all the guys that took it before and call them cheaters? Hell no.

Strength is one of the least important components of hitting a home run anyways. Swing, batspeed, getting the right pitch, hitting the sweet spot on the bat, so many things are more important. Mark McGwire hit 49 home runs as a rookie in 87 when he was skinny as shit.

So yeah, Sammy should get into the HoF. Its ridiculous to keep anybody out because of a rule you created after the fact. Especially when you'll never be able to know all the players who may have done steroids. To me its a given that there are star players that did them and haven't had their name associated with steroids because their supplier or whoever wasn't nailed the way BALCO was. It'd be hypocritical to keep certain guys out when you know there would be others out there (possibly many) that got away with it.

[sticktastic]

Originally Posted by Pharazon

Forget testing, baseball didn't even have a fucking rule against using steroids back when these guys were taking them. How is it cheating when they aren't breaking a rule? Are they supposed to see into the future? They were breaking a law, but not a rule of baseball at the time.

What if MLB decides in 10 years that creatine or some other supplement gives nearly as much of an unfair advantage as steroids, so they decide to ban that too. Would it be fair to look back to all the guys that took it before and call them cheaters? Hell no.

Strength is one of the least important components of hitting a home run anyways. Swing, batspeed, getting the right pitch, hitting the sweet spot on the bat, so many things are more important. Mark McGwire hit 49 home runs as a rookie in 87 when he was skinny as shit.

So yeah, Sammy should get into the HoF. Its ridiculous to keep anybody out because of a rule you created after the fact. Especially when you'll never be able to know all the players who may have done steroids. To me its a given that there are star players that did them and haven't had their name associated with steroids because their supplier or whoever wasn't nailed the way BALCO was. It'd be hypocritical to keep certain guys out when you know there would be others out there (possibly many) that got away with it.

It was still against the law. Just because baseball did not have it as a "rule" does not mean you can break the law. MLB also does not have any laws against speeding, however if you speed you are breaking the law. Sosa while having elite company in the 600 club, his other numbers pale in comparison. He was a average at best right fielder, was around a career .270 hitter, wasnt a base stealer, not a big RBI guy. I mean other than 600 homers, his resume lacks.

I agree with one of the above posters tho, I think of everyone that is still playing right now with 500 or about to hit 500 only griffey has a pretty solid shot. Frank thomas is closing in on 500 but again...he was a DH most the time and his other numbers not so hot. Thome is getting close as well, same story as frank tho. A-rod barring some freak roid allegation in the future is a sure bet in as well. Other than that I dont see people looking at 500 as that magic number anymore.

[Grimmlokk]

They had a rule against it back then, they just didn't test. So basically the only way someone could get caught was to admit it or maybe to inject on camera during a game.

500 may not be a magic number anymore, but Sosa has 600 fucking home runs. Ruth, Mays, Aaron, Bonds....Sosa. He juiced and everyone knows it, but no one can prove it. There's no way you should be able to keep him out of the HoF on those grounds. He's not borderline like some consider Mac or Palmiero. 600 home runs is hallowed ground. Still. 3 seasons with 60+. 4 straight with 50+. He absolutely dominated for a 5 year stretch from '98 to '02. And had 5 solid seasons before that.

None of that means the dickfaces that actually vote players in will let him even sniff the hall. Christ McGwire got what, like 20% votes? Ridiculous. Way too much opinionated bullshit to get their own names out there and not enough just voting based on facts.


edit: And BTW I hate Sammy Sosa. I hated him before steroids was ever an issue and I hate him today. He just flat out annoys me(baseball been berry berry goo to me!). But this is one case where the numbers speak for themselves.

Originally Posted by sticktastic

He was a average at best right fielder, was around a career .270 hitter, wasnt a base stealer, not a big RBI guy. I mean other than 600 homers, his resume lacks.

Well, other than the RBI's that's true. But 126 rbi average over 9 years is pretty good. 25th all time I think.

[Akileese]

I'm REALLY on the fence about Sosa. I vote no, but if he can play this year and next year and be successful, I'd say yes. Remember, getting in the Hall is all about having a great CAREER. Sosa had a great 5 or 6 years with the Cubs and was pretty much worthless the rest of the time (except this year, although he's on a struggling Rangers team).

Say what you want about Bonds, but unless someone finds actual evidence and not hearsay that he did it while it was ILLEGAL (that's a key there and you can't forget that you really can't punish a guy for doing stuff when it wasn't illegal), he's a definite first ballot Hall of Famer. There's no question about it and if anyone doesn't vote for him, they should lose their vote. For him to break the record (we're assuming he does) and to have MORE INTENTIONAL WALKS THAN RUTH AND AARON COMBINED, you have to be one of the best players in the game.

As for McGwire, honestly, I don't think he belongs in the Hall and it has nothing to do with the steroids. Most of the time he would of been using was late 80s and early 90s when they weren't even illegal. He just isn't a hall guy. His numbers weren't that great aside from the homers and he didn't play long enough. Had he played another 3 or 4 years, that'd be fine. He was hurt too much and wasn't significant enough.

To be a first ballot hall of famer, you have to be a stud in the league and put up gaudy numbers year after year after year. Someone like Manny Ramirez (being a Sox fan) comes to mind. He put up I believe 8 years of 40 homers and 100 RBIs and that is just disgusting. Someone like Pedro also comes to mind even though he doesn't have 300 wins or anything sexy like that, he has one of the best ERA's in the history of baseball. He's a rare exception where wins don't matter.

[sticktastic]

Originally Posted by Akileese

I'm REALLY on the fence about Sosa. I vote no, but if he can play this year and next year and be successful, I'd say yes. Remember, getting in the Hall is all about having a great CAREER. Sosa had a great 5 or 6 years with the Cubs and was pretty much worthless the rest of the time (except this year, although he's on a struggling Rangers team).

Say what you want about Bonds, but unless someone finds actual evidence and not hearsay that he did it while it was ILLEGAL (that's a key there and you can't forget that you really can't punish a guy for doing stuff when it wasn't illegal), he's a definite first ballot Hall of Famer. There's no question about it and if anyone doesn't vote for him, they should lose their vote. For him to break the record (we're assuming he does) and to have MORE INTENTIONAL WALKS THAN RUTH AND AARON COMBINED, you have to be one of the best players in the game.

As for McGwire, honestly, I don't think he belongs in the Hall and it has nothing to do with the steroids. Most of the time he would of been using was late 80s and early 90s when they weren't even illegal. He just isn't a hall guy. His numbers weren't that great aside from the homers and he didn't play long enough. Had he played another 3 or 4 years, that'd be fine. He was hurt too much and wasn't significant enough.

To be a first ballot hall of famer, you have to be a stud in the league and put up gaudy numbers year after year after year. Someone like Manny Ramirez (being a Sox fan) comes to mind. He put up I believe 8 years of 40 homers and 100 RBIs and that is just disgusting. Someone like Pedro also comes to mind even though he doesn't have 300 wins or anything sexy like that, he has one of the best ERA's in the history of baseball. He's a rare exception where wins don't matter.

I will roll with most of that, however honestly my big beef is with the writers who vote people in. A lot of them are old crusty men with sand in their mangina's and a lot of times do not think the right way. For instance, ripken and gwynn both got in easy -- however two voters left their ballots blank...how the fuck does that happen? I mean if that had been a close vote..who the fuck leaves it blank? It really needs to be changed.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by sticktastic

I will roll with most of that, however honestly my big beef is with the writers who vote people in. A lot of them are old crusty men with sand in their mangina's and a lot of times do not think the right way. For instance, ripken and gwynn both got in easy -- however two voters left their ballots blank...how the fuck does that happen? I mean if that had been a close vote..who the fuck leaves it blank? It really needs to be changed.

It's because of some fear of making someone a unanimous inductee when no one prior has been. I guess they are afraid it will dishonor the memories of Mays and Mantle and Ruth or whatever.