[NBA] Offseason Talk

Akileese · 06-19-2007, 09:53 AM

Well, we have an NHL thread so I figured we should have an NBA off-season thread.

HoopsHype - NBA Rumors

It all starts there. Today June 19th the big rumors are:
Kobe's shortlist is the Bulls and Knicks (no surprise)
Celtics possibly orchestrating a deal to get Garnett.

Personally, I think Kobe is absolutely gone at this point. Isiah Thomas went on the record saying everyone but Curry is available including Channing Frye (it should be the other way around, but this Isiah we're talking about, plus, there's no way a deal works without Channing Frye).

As for the Garnett thing, I'm on the fence like most. If it involves Jefferson, then I don't want it to happen. He's too valuable to give him up at this stage in his young career. On the other side, I don't think a deal happens without him. T

he thought of having Garnett and a determined Pierce on the same side, PLUS with a possible Kobe move to New York makes the Atlantic easily "The Division" in the east. Suddenly teams like Detroit, Miami, and Cleveland are not the top dogs anymore (I say this assuming the Knicks have a good draft because drafting is the one thing Isiah does do well and if he can snag Kobe while getting rid of Francis/Marbury, I'll be fucking shocked).

Either way, this off-season is getting REALLY interesting already.

Dis · 06-19-2007, 11:37 AM

I seriously think Pheonix is going to get Garnett. They want to win now, and I imagine with Garnett they very well could possibly beat the Spurs in a 7 game series.

Blumpster · 06-19-2007, 11:46 AM

KG to Phoenix for Marion and Stoudemire, start Thomas and Barbosa, win championship.

Dis · 06-19-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blumpster

KG to Phoenix for Marion and Stoudemire, start Thomas and Barbosa, win championship.

You take Marion out, and I rescind my statement about winning a championship.

Has to be Shawn, KG, and Nash, otherwise they will do what they do every year, show good in the regular season, and putter out in the 2nd round and/or finals.

Nebuchadnezzar · 06-19-2007, 01:40 PM

Who in their right mind would willingly go to the horrible screwed up mess that is the knicks? Its got to be Chicago, which will make the Lebron/Shaq/Kobe/piston second round oh so entertaining.

woqqqa · 06-19-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar

Who in their right mind would willingly go to the horrible screwed up mess that is the knicks? Its got to be Chicago, which will make the Lebron/Shaq/Kobe/piston second round oh so entertaining.

But would Chicago take him? I don't know their cap situation, but they'd have to gut the team to make a trade for Bryant. If they're willing to spend enough cash to pick up free agents in the off-season, it could certainly work. If not, I don't see them making a play for the guy just to become the same sort of team the Lakers are now.

Also, regarding the Knicks, who would they trade for Kobe? There's little talent on that team, so far as I can tell.

Akileese · 06-19-2007, 02:17 PM

1) Phoenix is looking to move Kurt Thomas to an Eastern team.
2) Much like with the Kobe deal, I think if Garnett goes, he'll go East as they don't want to send him to a Western conference team like Phoenix. I'm not sure what's going on right now though. There are rumors out the ass.

3) Kobe will get 100 times the endorsement money in NY that he gets in LA. Plus, if they do get Kobe, LA will want a few expiring contracts in the deal. I don't know the exact numbers, but I'd guess Francis, Crawford, and Frye plus others would make sense. The Knicks would be smart to try and get a third team involved so they could dump Marbury as well. The knicks salary cap situation is a lot better now with Allan Houston's contract and Jalen Rose's contract gone. They're down to just under 88 million. A Kobe trade would almost have to include Marbury and another trade or a third team to involve Francis.

People don't realize it, but the Knicks have shaved over 50 million off their cap with all the expiring contracts they let go. Probably going to have to involve a sign and trade with one or two guys too. They really could of made a big trade last year.

woqqqa · 06-19-2007, 02:38 PM

Francis, Crawford and Frye? You're kidding, right? Do you think that the Lakers are that desperate to move him East? Or that he'll try to force a deal by sitting out if they don't trade him? The only way he goes to NYC is if they sign some FA's they're willing to trade for him. As is, they have few players the Lakers would want in return.

Akileese · 06-19-2007, 04:20 PM

First off, the NBA has learned from Vince Carter. It's better to sell then let a guy tank your season to the point where his value is so low you get 10 cents to the dollar for him. Secondly, I said off the top of my head, I said those 3 plus a third team and more expiring contracts. LA doesn't want another superstar in return. They want pieces. What better way to build than with a fuck ton of trade pieces? The Knicks have two or three on their roster (check out Hoopshype.com to see them) and if they used a sign and trade, they could get more. Plus, you're giving Buss way to much credit as a GM.

In the modern day NBA, the best thing you can get is two to three players (usually two talented young players and one middle of the road guy who's probably overpayed) and two expiring contracts. Also, remember that Kobe makes max money so the contracts would have to even out which means Marbury would almost DEFINITELY be included one way or another (I just really think it's gonna be three teams).

LA could definitely look to free up cap room as a lot of teams are. Why? A guy by the name of Gilbert Arenas is a free agent after next year thanks to his opt out clause. The 07 free agent class sucks and 08 looks a lot more intriguing. As a result teams are going to be looking to do probably one of three things:

1) Pick up a superstar in an attempt to take them to that next level (Phoenix, Dallas, Miami, Possibly Detroit).
2) Move a superstar on a struggling team in order to make cap room or go younger and improve the roster (LA, Minnesota, technically the Knicks)
3) Pick up a superstar and some expiring contracts in a move to both improve yourself and set yourself up for 2008.

I know I went on for a little while, but in all honesty, Chicago has a better chance if they're willing to go in for Kobe. If the price is too high, the Bulls will drop out and then it's just the Knicks. That's dangerous for LA.

Pharazon · 06-19-2007, 04:28 PM

If I'm the Lakers, I see no way I want to trade Kobe to the Knicks (they have nothing I'd want at all) and a very small chance I'd even want to trade with the Bulls. The only reason the Bulls are competetive with guys like Gordon and Deng as their main scorers is that they are so good defensively. Put those guys on the Lakers, and you have a team that is not especially good offensively or defensively. I mean, the Bulls would have to trade 3 or 4 of their own key players, any combination of Hinrich, Deng, Gordon, Tyrus Thomas. Put those guys on the Lakers with say Odom, Bynum etc, and what do you have? A below average team in the western conference WITHOUT A SUPERSTAR. The Lakers would just be stupid imo to make a trade like that, LA fans wouldn't want to watch. I agree with what Phil Jackson says, that Kobe will probably still be a Laker come October.

I guess there's a vido that just popped up that has Kobe talking shit about Bynum. So, maybe the Lakers will just ask Kobe if trading Bynum for Kidd or whoever would make him happy to stay.

I don't think the Suns should or will change their team much. They showed they were the second best team in the NBA this year and that they can be competetive with the Spurs. Steve Kerr is their new GM, so we'll see if he thinks a team like that can win it all.

Jedite · 06-19-2007, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akileese

First off, the NBA has learned from Vince Carter. It's better to sell then let a guy tank your season to the point where his value is so low you get 10 cents to the dollar for him. Secondly, I said off the top of my head, I said those 3 plus a third team and more expiring contracts. LA doesn't want another superstar in return. They want pieces. What better way to build than with a fuck ton of trade pieces? The Knicks have two or three on their roster (check out Hoopshype.com to see them) and if they used a sign and trade, they could get more. Plus, you're giving Buss way to much credit as a GM.

In the modern day NBA, the best thing you can get is two to three players (usually two talented young players and one middle of the road guy who's probably overpayed) and two expiring contracts. Also, remember that Kobe makes max money so the contracts would have to even out which means Marbury would almost DEFINITELY be included one way or another (I just really think it's gonna be three teams).

LA could definitely look to free up cap room as a lot of teams are. Why? A guy by the name of Gilbert Arenas is a free agent after next year thanks to his opt out clause. The 07 free agent class sucks and 08 looks a lot more intriguing. As a result teams are going to be looking to do probably one of three things:

1) Pick up a superstar in an attempt to take them to that next level (Phoenix, Dallas, Miami, Possibly Detroit).
2) Move a superstar on a struggling team in order to make cap room or go younger and improve the roster (LA, Minnesota, technically the Knicks)
3) Pick up a superstar and some expiring contracts in a move to both improve yourself and set yourself up for 2008.

I know I went on for a little while, but in all honesty, Chicago has a better chance if they're willing to go in for Kobe. If the price is too high, the Bulls will drop out and then it's just the Knicks. That's dangerous for LA.

Chicago would really have to gut their team to get Kobe. If im not mistaken, Chicago is in a tight spot as far as cap room due to last years aquisition of Ben Wallace.

woqqqa · 06-19-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharazon

I guess there's a vido that just popped up that has Kobe talking shit about Bynum. So, maybe the Lakers will just ask Kobe if trading Bynum for Kidd or whoever would make him happy to stay.

Speaking of which, any idea why LA is supposedly so high on Bynum? I've seen him play, and I see nothing special. Not that he couldn't end up being pretty good in the future, but I wonder what they're basing their opinion on. And why a fair number of people seem to think they could get a decent player in return for him at this stage in his career.

Pharazon · 06-19-2007, 07:41 PM

Big guys that come straight out of high school are usually pretty slow to develop. This was Bynum's second year in the league, but only his first getting any PT. In the few games that I saw him play, you could see he already has some skills. He has some offensive moves, decent coordination, has good strength for a guy that age, long arms so he should be a decent shot blocker. He can't dominate now but there's a chance he could be a dominant inside player within ~5 years if he keeps working.

Bynum was the youngest player in NBA history when he entered the league. He's only like 3 months older than Greg Oden.

cdyhybrid · 06-20-2007, 12:33 AM

Re: Kobe

Barring a three-team trade, Phoenix is out of the question. The Lakers would have to be absolutely RETARDED to trade him to Phoenix, who is not only in their conference, but in their own division. Kobe has always talked about wanting to win first and foremost, and he would look awfully hypocritical if he went to the Knicks. Sure, he might make the playoffs with New York, but would they be able to beat Chicago or Detroit or Cleveland? I doubt it. If Chicago could keep Deng somehow (unlikely) in a Kobe trade, they would be the favorites every year to represent the East in the Finals. Apparently the T-Wolves are finally listening to trade offers for KG, so maybe we could have a monster 3-way trade in the future. Unless something completely out of the blue happens, I don't really see any two-team trades that would make both sides better off.

Blumpster · 06-20-2007, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akileese

LA doesn't want another superstar in return.

Errr, I heard on ESPN today that's exactly what they want, another superstar.

06-19-2007, 11:37 AM	#2 (permalink)
Dis There is no internets Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,287 -8 Internets	I seriously think Pheonix is going to get Garnett. They want to win now, and I imagine with Garnett they very well could possibly beat the Spurs in a 7 game series. __________________ Not a spelling nazi Definitions of LOSE on the Web: fail to keep or to maintain; cease to have, either physically or in an abstract sense; "She lost her purse when she left it unattended on her seat" Definitions of LOOSE on the Web: not restrained or confined or attached; "a pocket full of loose bills"; "knocked the ball loose"; "got loose from his attacker" Please people, stop adding letters to a 4 letter word, kittens die when you do this. Think of the kittens!!!

06-19-2007, 01:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
Nebuchadnezzar Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,462 +0 Internets	Who in their right mind would willingly go to the horrible screwed up mess that is the knicks? Its got to be Chicago, which will make the Lebron/Shaq/Kobe/piston second round oh so entertaining. __________________ I eat grass like an ox and shat like a fox.

06-19-2007, 02:38 PM	#8 (permalink)
woqqqa Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 961 +0 Internets	Francis, Crawford and Frye? You're kidding, right? Do you think that the Lakers are that desperate to move him East? Or that he'll try to force a deal by sitting out if they don't trade him? The only way he goes to NYC is if they sign some FA's they're willing to trade for him. As is, they have few players the Lakers would want in return. __________________ Two tires fly. Two wail. A bamboo grove, all chopped down. From it, warring songs.

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06-19-2007, 11:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
Blumpster . Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Washington Posts: 1,583 -1 Internets	KG to Phoenix for Marion and Stoudemire, start Thomas and Barbosa, win championship.

06-19-2007, 04:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
Pharazon Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 264 -2 Internets	If I'm the Lakers, I see no way I want to trade Kobe to the Knicks (they have nothing I'd want at all) and a very small chance I'd even want to trade with the Bulls. The only reason the Bulls are competetive with guys like Gordon and Deng as their main scorers is that they are so good defensively. Put those guys on the Lakers, and you have a team that is not especially good offensively or defensively. I mean, the Bulls would have to trade 3 or 4 of their own key players, any combination of Hinrich, Deng, Gordon, Tyrus Thomas. Put those guys on the Lakers with say Odom, Bynum etc, and what do you have? A below average team in the western conference WITHOUT A SUPERSTAR. The Lakers would just be stupid imo to make a trade like that, LA fans wouldn't want to watch. I agree with what Phil Jackson says, that Kobe will probably still be a Laker come October. I guess there's a vido that just popped up that has Kobe talking shit about Bynum. So, maybe the Lakers will just ask Kobe if trading Bynum for Kidd or whoever would make him happy to stay. I don't think the Suns should or will change their team much. They showed they were the second best team in the NBA this year and that they can be competetive with the Spurs. Steve Kerr is their new GM, so we'll see if he thinks a team like that can win it all.

06-19-2007, 07:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
Pharazon Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 264 -2 Internets	Big guys that come straight out of high school are usually pretty slow to develop. This was Bynum's second year in the league, but only his first getting any PT. In the few games that I saw him play, you could see he already has some skills. He has some offensive moves, decent coordination, has good strength for a guy that age, long arms so he should be a decent shot blocker. He can't dominate now but there's a chance he could be a dominant inside player within ~5 years if he keeps working. Bynum was the youngest player in NBA history when he entered the league. He's only like 3 months older than Greg Oden.

06-20-2007, 12:33 AM	#14 (permalink)
cdyhybrid Go Dawgs! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Oahu/Seattle Posts: 491 +0 Internets	Re: Kobe Barring a three-team trade, Phoenix is out of the question. The Lakers would have to be absolutely RETARDED to trade him to Phoenix, who is not only in their conference, but in their own division. Kobe has always talked about wanting to win first and foremost, and he would look awfully hypocritical if he went to the Knicks. Sure, he might make the playoffs with New York, but would they be able to beat Chicago or Detroit or Cleveland? I doubt it. If Chicago could keep Deng somehow (unlikely) in a Kobe trade, they would be the favorites every year to represent the East in the Finals. Apparently the T-Wolves are finally listening to trade offers for KG, so maybe we could have a monster 3-way trade in the future. Unless something completely out of the blue happens, I don't really see any two-team trades that would make both sides better off.