[NHL] Offseason Talk - Page 10

Ishad · 08-02-2007, 12:59 PM

Burke doesn't match Penner to Edmonton, no one suprised.

Eomer · 08-02-2007, 01:08 PM

Meanwhile New Jersey signs Parise to a far less generous deal, and it leaves me scratching my head. Maybe Penner will turn into Bertuzzi The Sequel, I don't know. But there's no question the Oilers significantly overpaid.

But on the flip side, what's the point of an offer sheet to a restricted free agent unless it IS significantly more than would be reasonable? If you give them a reasonable offer, their team would match it every damn time.

I dunno, only time will tell if this was a good move or not. It certainly gives the Oil size up front, which is something that's fairly lacking.

Bottle · 08-02-2007, 04:52 PM

Yeah have to see how it pans out. Could be the sort of decision that makes or breaks Kevin Lowe.

Eomer · 08-02-2007, 04:59 PM

Really depends what happens this season, but personally I think the Smyth trade will be what broke him if we miss the playoffs again next year. His ass will be fired, and hopefully MacTavish with him. I was really big on him two years ago obviously, pulling Pronger and Peca out of a hat (Peca was largely a bust in the regular season, but fucking money in the playoffs). But man, since then he's shit the bed repeatedly.

And don't get me started on MacTavish. I can just see him using Schremp in a checking role for three years to "teach him responsibility and pay his dues" and totally destroy the confidence of yet another promising offensive prospect.

EmpireF4i · 08-02-2007, 08:35 PM

Penner is the kind of player that needs his line mates to excel with him. He was playing with Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf. Dont get me wrong, I like Penner and thought he had a lot of potential, but I dont see him scoring 29 goals again without a lot of help.

EDIT: Had to add this from Burke

Lowe earlier said that he had received calls from GMs who supported his actions.

"I find that incredibly difficult to believe," said Burke. "I'd like him to identify the GMs who said this made sense because the sentiment I've received has been 180 degrees diametrically opposite.

"I find that hard to accept."

It doesn't matter now. Penner is a member of the Oilers and he's looking forward to joining the team.

"I'm excited to be in a position where I become accountable to be a go-to guy," he said. "Hopefully I can do that. I'm excited at the challenge."

Eomer · 08-03-2007, 07:39 AM

Brian Burke has said some pretty uncalled for things about this. Even if you think Kevin Lowe is distorting the market with the two offers he made (and just what in the fuck are the Briere, Drury, and Gomez offers doing to the market then? Bringing it down?), I think Burke has repeatedly crossed the line in his comments about Lowe.

Saying "well, we got their draft picks, and if his recent actions are any indication they should be really good picks" is a low fucking blow and completely unnecessary. Let alone calling him gutless and classless. Bettman needs to step in and tell Burke to shut his fucking mouth, already.

Bottle · 08-03-2007, 06:27 PM

Lowe's an old horse at the game of hockey. He's out to improve his club and I don't think he gives two shits what Burke says. In fact, most of what Burke is saying is posturing for Duck fans.

Signing Bertuzzi and Schnieder and saying he would wait on Niedermayer and Selanne to decide got him into this predicament. So its his own fault.

As to the Smyth trade. The trade worked out pretty good for Edmonton considering they basically got three first rounders in exchange for 20 games.

They're paying Penner 4 million a season for what will be his best seasons. They could have paid 5.5+ for Smyth's decline. Plus the Oilers really need some size and physical presence. I think fans are going to like Penner.

EmpireF4i · 08-03-2007, 09:06 PM

Burke is just telling it how it is. Lowe offering these crazy contracts does screw it up for every team. Look at all these players going into arbitration. They see guys like Vanek, Penner and gomez getting this high paying contracs and are going to use that to get more money. Last year Penner got paid $450k, now hes getting almost 10 times that? Hes good, and can be better, but hes no Crosby.

Why should Bettman have to step into anything? Burke hasnt said anything thats not true so why should he have to stop making comments?

Eomer · 08-04-2007, 07:59 AM

Because it makes hockey look unprofessional and bush league when one of the GM's is publicly insulting another on a regular basis.

Quote:

Burke is just telling it how it is. Lowe offering these crazy contracts does screw it up for every team.

So where's his indignation with Philly then? Scotty Hartnell's contract is just as ridiculous. Briere's is inflationary. Does it only count as inflationary if it's RFAs and not UFAs?

In addition, there's this thing we call the salary cap. The inflation is limited by the salary cap, and things can only go so high before player escrow kicks in at 55% of league revenues. This isn't the old days when you had half a dozen teams spending two or three times the league average.

Ishad · 08-06-2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmpireF4i

Burke is just telling it how it is. Lowe offering these crazy contracts does screw it up for every team. Look at all these players going into arbitration. They see guys like Vanek, Penner and gomez getting this high paying contracs and are going to use that to get more money. Last year Penner got paid $450k, now hes getting almost 10 times that? Hes good, and can be better, but hes no Crosby.

Why should Bettman have to step into anything? Burke hasnt said anything thats not true so why should he have to stop making comments?

Arbitration has produced far more reasonable contracts this offseason than what have been handed out to UFAs.

As it was mentioned before you aren't going to get an RFA for a reasonable offer sheet unless the team is already ass up against the cap.

Does it cause inflation? Yea, you bet after hearing that perry and getz have visions of dollar signs bouncing in their dreams, but the cap limits the amount of teams that can really make offers like this. Plus aside from paying a shitload of money to a one season player that could turn out to be a bust they gave up three draft picks in what's going to be a deep draft.

Burke is putting on a show for the media but Burke's always been a mouthy fuck, like Hull and Roenick. Even if you don't like him at least he isn't boring.

Hopefully this generates some bad blood that carries over to the season and make for some good games when they meet. Well as long as the games are close. The ducks have a tendency to get dirty in a hurry when they are getting blown out.

Bottle · 08-06-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmpireF4i

Burke is just telling it how it is. Lowe offering these crazy contracts does screw it up for every team. Look at all these players going into arbitration. They see guys like Vanek, Penner and gomez getting this high paying contracs and are going to use that to get more money. Last year Penner got paid $450k, now hes getting almost 10 times that? Hes good, and can be better, but hes no Crosby.

Why should Bettman have to step into anything? Burke hasnt said anything thats not true so why should he have to stop making comments?

Actually he's wrong. You look at the Parise contract and it shows the Penner contract effected little.

You want an RFA you have to overpay. That should be obvious to everyone. If nobody goes after an RFA he is going to get the same sort of pay he's always gotten.

Eomer · 08-07-2007, 12:55 AM

To be fair, though, where it is inflationary is in arbitration. If Getzlaf or Perry got to arbitration next year, of course they'll use Penner's contract as a comparable.

Bottle · 08-07-2007, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eomer

To be fair, though, where it is inflationary is in arbitration. If Getzlaf or Perry got to arbitration next year, of course they'll use Penner's contract as a comparable.

We'll have to see when and if a player actually goes to arbitration. Agents seem loathe in wanting to do that.

Eomer · 08-07-2007, 03:03 PM

TSN : NHL - Canada's Sports Leader

Heh, the arbitrator must not have heard about Penner's contract!

Ishad · 08-07-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottle

We'll have to see when and if a player actually goes to arbitration. Agents seem loathe in wanting to do that.

For good reason, arbitration is pretty big crapshoot. Just look at Mike Cammalleri, 60 goals in the last two seasons, 80 points last season, 55 points the season before. Goes to arbitration and gets a 2 year 6.7 million contract, 3.1 the first and 3.6 the second.
Had he not been a bitch and wanted 6 million he could've reasonably gotten 4/4.5 especially this offseason.

Guess the arbitrator thought he was no Scott Hartnell!

08-02-2007, 04:59 PM	#139 (permalink)
Eomer You mean I can change this? Neat! Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 10,147 +37 Internets	Really depends what happens this season, but personally I think the Smyth trade will be what broke him if we miss the playoffs again next year. His ass will be fired, and hopefully MacTavish with him. I was really big on him two years ago obviously, pulling Pronger and Peca out of a hat (Peca was largely a bust in the regular season, but fucking money in the playoffs). But man, since then he's shit the bed repeatedly. And don't get me started on MacTavish. I can just see him using Schremp in a checking role for three years to "teach him responsibility and pay his dues" and totally destroy the confidence of yet another promising offensive prospect. Last edited by Eomer : 08-02-2007 at 05:01 PM.

08-02-2007, 08:35 PM	#140 (permalink)
EmpireF4i Right as the mail Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: So Cal Posts: 1,635 -23 Internets	Penner is the kind of player that needs his line mates to excel with him. He was playing with Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf. Dont get me wrong, I like Penner and thought he had a lot of potential, but I dont see him scoring 29 goals again without a lot of help. EDIT: Had to add this from Burke Lowe earlier said that he had received calls from GMs who supported his actions. "I find that incredibly difficult to believe," said Burke. "I'd like him to identify the GMs who said this made sense because the sentiment I've received has been 180 degrees diametrically opposite. "I find that hard to accept." It doesn't matter now. Penner is a member of the Oilers and he's looking forward to joining the team. "I'm excited to be in a position where I become accountable to be a go-to guy," he said. "Hopefully I can do that. I'm excited at the challenge." Last edited by EmpireF4i : 08-02-2007 at 08:43 PM.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

08-02-2007, 12:59 PM	#136 (permalink)
Ishad Fires of Heaven WoW Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 383 +4 Internets	Burke doesn't match Penner to Edmonton, no one suprised.

08-02-2007, 01:08 PM	#137 (permalink)
Eomer You mean I can change this? Neat! Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 10,147 +37 Internets	Meanwhile New Jersey signs Parise to a far less generous deal, and it leaves me scratching my head. Maybe Penner will turn into Bertuzzi The Sequel, I don't know. But there's no question the Oilers significantly overpaid. But on the flip side, what's the point of an offer sheet to a restricted free agent unless it IS significantly more than would be reasonable? If you give them a reasonable offer, their team would match it every damn time. I dunno, only time will tell if this was a good move or not. It certainly gives the Oil size up front, which is something that's fairly lacking.

08-02-2007, 04:52 PM	#138 (permalink)
Bottle Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 694 +1 Internets	Yeah have to see how it pans out. Could be the sort of decision that makes or breaks Kevin Lowe.

08-03-2007, 07:39 AM	#141 (permalink)
Eomer You mean I can change this? Neat! Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 10,147 +37 Internets	Brian Burke has said some pretty uncalled for things about this. Even if you think Kevin Lowe is distorting the market with the two offers he made (and just what in the fuck are the Briere, Drury, and Gomez offers doing to the market then? Bringing it down?), I think Burke has repeatedly crossed the line in his comments about Lowe. Saying "well, we got their draft picks, and if his recent actions are any indication they should be really good picks" is a low fucking blow and completely unnecessary. Let alone calling him gutless and classless. Bettman needs to step in and tell Burke to shut his fucking mouth, already.

08-03-2007, 06:27 PM	#142 (permalink)
Bottle Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 694 +1 Internets	Lowe's an old horse at the game of hockey. He's out to improve his club and I don't think he gives two shits what Burke says. In fact, most of what Burke is saying is posturing for Duck fans. Signing Bertuzzi and Schnieder and saying he would wait on Niedermayer and Selanne to decide got him into this predicament. So its his own fault. As to the Smyth trade. The trade worked out pretty good for Edmonton considering they basically got three first rounders in exchange for 20 games. They're paying Penner 4 million a season for what will be his best seasons. They could have paid 5.5+ for Smyth's decline. Plus the Oilers really need some size and physical presence. I think fans are going to like Penner.

08-03-2007, 09:06 PM	#143 (permalink)
EmpireF4i Right as the mail Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: So Cal Posts: 1,635 -23 Internets	Burke is just telling it how it is. Lowe offering these crazy contracts does screw it up for every team. Look at all these players going into arbitration. They see guys like Vanek, Penner and gomez getting this high paying contracs and are going to use that to get more money. Last year Penner got paid $450k, now hes getting almost 10 times that? Hes good, and can be better, but hes no Crosby. Why should Bettman have to step into anything? Burke hasnt said anything thats not true so why should he have to stop making comments?

08-07-2007, 12:55 AM	#147 (permalink)
Eomer You mean I can change this? Neat! Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 10,147 +37 Internets	To be fair, though, where it is inflationary is in arbitration. If Getzlaf or Perry got to arbitration next year, of course they'll use Penner's contract as a comparable.

08-07-2007, 03:03 PM	#149 (permalink)
Eomer You mean I can change this? Neat! Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 10,147 +37 Internets	TSN : NHL - Canada's Sports Leader Heh, the arbitrator must not have heard about Penner's contract!