Boxing vs MMA

[Grimmlokk]

The MMA Thread in Screenshots for anyone who cares. Lot of the boxer vs. MMA guy stuff is debated on the later pages.

Dana White would not put this dude in the octagon against anyone but someone he thought would destroy his ass. It's not about fair, it's about selling MMA/UFC as the "superior" sport. That's really the main reason he wanted Mayweather in there. It wasn't the trash talk, that was just a handy excuse. If they got THE BEST boxer in the world to step in and one of their guys schooled him, you can't get better advertising than that.

On the flip side, if the dude steps in and wins it might open the gate to more boxers trying MMA. Which could only be a good thing=D The more talented fighters there are, the more good fights I get to watch. Which is really the only thing I give a shit about.

[ziggyholiday]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

Boxer would get his ass beat in MMA. THe MMA's would bet their ass beat in boxing. Its a fucking different sport.

xactly!

On a different not though, it's great that he wrestled in high school but once you introduce the ability to strike someone when they're trying to attain dominate body position it becomes a whole new game.

[Grimmlokk]

Originally Posted by Believe

As for boxing dying, the De La Hoya vs Mayweather fight had an all-time high for PPV sales. 2.15 million sales? That's pretty damn impressive for a so-called dying sport.

It is a dying sport. Unless a good, exciting, heavyweight shows up it's going to keep on dying. This doesn't mean there won't be anymore boxing, it just means it will fade into more of a niche sport.

This fight was boxing's last big chance. And it sold well. What did people get for their money? A mostly boring fight that went to a somewhat disputed decision. The only way it could have ended worse was if De La Hoya dominated for 12 rounds and Mayweather got the decision.

What other fight is out there on the horizon that will garner even a fraction of this fight's buys? Boxing is very rapidly running out of names. Who is left after these 2 retire? Before Mayweather's inevitable comeback I mean=P Klitschko? He's not really exciting for most fans, and there's no one out there people particularly want to see him fight. And you have to be a hell of an exciting fighter and a personality to sell fights single handidly(DLH, Tyson). Hopkins is 109 years old and set to retire after every fight, Winky Wright is too technical and not dominant enough. Roy Jones is like 1 day younger than Hopkins and fights like he's 20 years older. Samuel Peter punches like a retard and only looked like a world beater because of the string of cans they fed him on the way up. I hope he gets some porper training because he could be fun to watch, though he'll never be the "Next Tyson" he was labled as. Calzaghe almost never fights outside Europe. And there's no way in hell all these little sub 155lb mexicans will save the sport. Etc etc etc.

This is all completely ignoring the ridiculous level of corruption at the top of the boxing ladder. Mandatory title defenses against absolute nobodies. Questionable, or flat out *wrong* decisions. People ranked by the alphabet soup groups that have no business being there.

It kills me to say it because I love boxing. Have since I was a little kid, any growing boy would have at the time. Tyson was in his prime and looked like an unstoppable killing machine. Sugar Ray was still putting on classic bouts regularly. Hagler was not quite disgusted with the sport yet. Now I look around and see a few aging greats, a very good but not great DLH who has lost almost every real big fight he's been in, and absolutely nothing on the horizon.

Boxing isn't dead yet, but it should seriously consider drawing up it's will soon=/

[Dis]

I read a quote somewhere (maybe from ESPN or cnnsi) about the PPV numbers that they De La Hoya fight drew were the first COMPETITIVE numbers for boxing vs. a UFC PPV draw. To me, that statement magnifies the dire situation that is boxing.

If your marque draw cannot even exceed a standard UFC PPV, that to me says that MMA's time has come, and boxing is moving into a niche market. What really irritates me is mainstream media's refusal to recognize MMA as a valid "sport". If it is regulate by various state atheletic commissions, it should be recognized as a sport and be reported as such.

Can someone explain to me how we talk about NASCAR on ESPN, but their is hardly a whisper about MMA.

[Mythas]

Nascar gets watched more, has bigger venues, brings in a whole shit ton more revenue etc etc. Not that i am a nascar fan but you can't deny what a huge cash cow it is.

[Twobit Whore]

I think PPV is partially to blame for the downfall of boxing. I remember back in the day, Tyson fights were on ESPN and HBO. Hell, long ago marquee fights were on ABC/NBC.

Moving to PPV cut the potential audience by a lot considering not everyone had access to it. It cut it even more when people weren't willing to shell out 30-50 bucks for 2 hours of programming.

Ultimately people lost touch with fighters.. and with a lot of big name fighters going to a more sparse schedule, fighting maybe once or twice a year instead of 3-4 times.. it was heard to find a 'favorite' to root for.

So yeah, I think boxing is just as liable for its own downfall as the rise of MMA is.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Mythas

Nascar gets watched more, has bigger venues, brings in a whole shit ton more revenue etc etc. Not that i am a nascar fan but you can't deny what a huge cash cow it is.

I understand that, but MMA is rising as fast, if not faster than NASCAR did about 8 or so years ago. You are starting to see the evolution (specifically UFC) of MMA to become a truely sactioned international league. The draw this sport gets should at least warrant some reporting by major sport media groups.


Edit: Also from what I have read Dana is in negotiations with HBO and ESPN to start televising matches (small amount but a start)

[Grimmlokk]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

So yeah, I think boxing is just as liable for its own downfall as the rise of MMA is.

99% of boxing's downfall is boxing's fault. It's not because of outside sports. They did it to themselves. Blame the corrupt and greedy promotors and sanctioning bodies. And the alphabet belt jackasses.

[kegkilla]

Originally Posted by Dis

I read a quote somewhere (maybe from ESPN or cnnsi) about the PPV numbers that they De La Hoya fight drew were the first COMPETITIVE numbers for boxing vs. a UFC PPV draw. To me, that statement magnifies the dire situation that is boxing.

If your marque draw cannot even exceed a standard UFC PPV, that to me says that MMA's time has come, and boxing is moving into a niche market. What really irritates me is mainstream media's refusal to recognize MMA as a valid "sport". If it is regulate by various state atheletic commissions, it should be recognized as a sport and be reported as such.

Can someone explain to me how we talk about NASCAR on ESPN, but their is hardly a whisper about MMA.

i'd like to see this article

[Dis]

Originally Posted by kegkilla

i'd like to see this article

Google is your friend

MMA WEEKLY - Your #1 Source for Daily MMA News, Interviews, Multimedia, and More

Bunch of links at the bottom of the article to various reports on ESPN/HBO working deals with UFC

[Grimmlokk]

UFC is not pulling in 1mil+ PPV buys regularly. Last I saw their highest one was Shamrock/Ortiz at UFC 61 and it was 775k buys. More recent ones may have beaten that I haven't seen numbers. I read an article about how the numbers were flying up startin in '06, mostly crediting TUF with bringing in more fans. Previous record was like 200k for UFC PPV's, and i think every '06 PPV broke that. Actually it must have gone up even more since this article puts the avg. for the '06 shows over 520k. And it points out that for the year UFC PPV's made more money than any single year of boxing PPV's.

So no, for individual events UFC has not hit major EVENT boxing numbers yet. But on average it is doing better and is raking in the cash hand over fist. And still picking up steam.

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Grimmlokk

UFC is not pulling in 1mil+ PPV buys regularly. Last I saw their highest one was Shamrock/Ortiz at UFC 61 and it was 775k buys. More recent ones may have beaten that I haven't seen numbers. I read an article about how the numbers were flying up startin in '06, mostly crediting TUF with bringing in more fans. Previous record was like 200k for UFC PPV's, and i think every '06 PPV broke that. Actually it must have gone up even more since this article puts the avg. for the '06 shows over 520k. And it points out that for the year UFC PPV's made more money than any single year of boxing PPV's.

So no, for individual events UFC has not hit major EVENT boxing numbers yet. But on average it is doing better and is raking in the cash hand over fist. And still picking up steam.

Overall though UFC PPV exceeds all PPV events (including WWE and boxing) in terms of revenue.


To quote

Just over a month later, the headline match of Matt Hughes vs. Royce Gracie at UFC 60 was hailed by Zuffa as the event that would break all of the UFC's records in PPV buyrates, total attendance, and live gate revenue. While it fell short of breaking the latter two records, the PPV business that was generated by UFC 60 is truly astounding. The PPV industry's initial buyrate estimate for UFC 60 is a whopping 600,000 buys, and with a price of $39.95, that leads to gross PPV revenue of $23.97 million.

Given that the previous UFC record, set by UFC 59, was less than 450,000 buys (which is, again, an extraordinary buyrate in and of itself), the jump up to 600,000 buys is all the more astonishing. That figure is just the initial buyrate estimate, and the final buyrate figure is always higher than the initial estimate. It's far too early for final buyrate figures, given the fact that the event just took place six weeks ago. In addition, it's too early for any initial buyrate estimates for UFC 61, given the fact that the event just took place last weekend.

Adding up all of the aforementioned figures, the gross PPV revenue generated by the first four UFC PPVs of 2006 was between $66.67 million and $68.22 million, not counting the late buys for UFC 60.

Ill see if I can dig up a site with some solid figures.

Edit: more info

- UFC 61 SURPASSES $30 MILLION IN PPV SALES
Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - by Ivan Trembow - MMAWeekly.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last week, MMAWeekly took a look at the fighter salaries for UFC 62, which took place on August 26th in Las Vegas. While pay-per-view buyrate information is not yet available for UFC 62 due to the fact that it takes weeks or months for such numbers to be finalized, we do have the initial estimates on UFC 61's PPV buyrate and the final numbers on UFC 60's PPV buyrate.

The news is excellent for the UFC, as just seven weeks after one of its PPV events generated more than $20 million for the first time in the history of the UFC, the company's next PPV generated over $30 million in gross sales, blowing away all previous records.

The initial buyrate estimate for UFC 61 within the pay-per-view industry, as published by the Wrestling Observer, is that the show drew a whopping 775,000 PPV buys. The Observer has been one of the most credible publications for many years when it comes to PPV buyrates, and 775,000 PPV buys at $39.95 per buy equals $30.96 million in gross PPV revenue. The UFC's share of the gross revenue for this and all other PPV events is approximately 50 percent, and all of the PPV figures in this article only take into account domestic PPV buys, which is where the majority of the UFC's PPV buys originate.

The initial buyrate estimates within the PPV industry are always lower than the final numbers, due to the fact that the final numbers take into account "late buys." Late buys is a term that refers to encore PPV buys of an event's replays throughout the month that it debuted, as well as PPV buys from smaller cable systems throughout the United States, and these late buys typically take several months to be fully reported in the inefficient cable industry.

The PPV industry's initial buyrate estimates, as first published by the Wrestling Observer, combined with MMAWeekly's own sources in the PPV industry, who are more familiar with the updated numbers that have "late buys" taken into account, are the basis of this article and MMAWeekly's previous article on the UFC's PPV buyrate explosion of 2006.

The main event of UFC 61 was technically Tim Sylvia vs. Andrei Arlovski for the UFC Heavyweight Title, but the vast majority of the hype for the event was dedicated to the rematch between Tito Ortiz and Ken Shamrock, which was hyped on national television for several consecutive months during the airing The Ultimate Fighter 3 on Spike TV.

The mark of 775,000 PPV buys for UFC 61 shatters the previous all-time UFC record that had been set by UFC 60, which had broken the record set by UFC 59, which had broken the record set by UFC 57. In total, four of the UFC's first five PPVs of 2006 broke the company's all-time PPV records, as detailed in our previous article on this subject.

The initial buyrate estimate for UFC 60 within the pay-per-view industry, as published by the Wrestling Observer and MMAWeekly at the time, was 600,000 buys. MMAWeekly has subsequently learned that the final buyrate for UFC 60 will be in the range of 615,000 to 625,000 buys, which is actually not that much of an increase over the initial buyrate estimate. In total, the gross PPV revenue for UFC 60 was between $24.57 million and $24.97 million. The event, headlined by Matt Hughes vs. Royce Gracie, was the first UFC event to break the $20 million mark in gross PPV sales.

The first three UFC PPVs of 2006 were also extremely successful. As previously detailed, UFC 57 in February broke all of the UFC's records at the time by drawing 400,000 to 410,000 PPV buys. With the main event of Chuck Liddell vs. Randy Couture III, the event generated between $15.98 million and $16.38 million in gross PPV sales. Impressive as these numbers were and still are, they have now been dwarfed by the PPV sales for UFC 60 and UFC 61.

UFC 58 in March was headlined by Rich Franklin vs. David Loiseau, and though it did not break UFC 57's record, the event still drew 290,000 to 300,000 PPV buys, which far exceeded the PPV industry's pre-event expectations. UFC 58 carried a fee of $34.95 instead of $39.95, and the gross PPV revenue was between $10.14 million and $10.49 million. When the lowest-drawing PPV event of the year still generates over $10 million in gross PPV sales,

UFC 59 in April was technically headlined by Tim Sylvia vs. Andrei Arlovski, but the vast majority of the hype was dedicated to the semi-main event of Tito Ortiz vs. Forrest Griffin. Though it was expected to draw a strong PPV buyrate, UFC 59 surpassed those lofty expectations by breaking the records that had been set by UFC 57. The total number of buys for UFC 59 was in the range of 415,000 to 435,000, which generated gross PPV revenue of $16.58 million to $17.38 million.

Adding up all of the aforementioned figures and not counting the "late buys" for UFC 61, the total number of PPV buys for the first five UFC PPVs of 2006 was between 2,495,000 and 2,545,000. Taking into account the fact that UFC 58 was priced at $34.95 instead of $39.95, this means that the gross PPV revenue generated by the first five UFC PPVs of 2006 was between $96,230,000 and $100,180,000.

As we've mentioned in the past, even though they promote two different products, the single company with which the UFC most directly competes is World Wrestling Entertainment, and the changing fortunes of both companies has led to a shift in the pay-per-view industry at large. In less than one year, the UFC has gone from not being able to even approach WWE's big-event PPV numbers to actually beating WrestleMania in domestic PPV sales on two separate occasions over the course of one summer.

WrestleMania has been the biggest American pro wrestling event of the year since 1985, and this year's WrestleMania drew approximately 560,000 domestic PPV buys, according to WWE's own financial records. That number is less than UFC 60's PPV buyrate and is not even close to UFC 61's.

The Royal Rumble, which is traditionally the second- or third-biggest American pro wrestling event of the year, drew approximately 340,000 domestic PPV buys, which is lower than all-but-one of the UFC's PPV events so far this year.

Outside of its four biggest events of the year (WrestleMania, Royal Rumble, SummerSlam, and Survivor Series), WWE's domestic PPV buyrates have collapsed in the past few years and even more so in 2006, just as the UFC's PPV buyrates have skyrocketed.

The non "Big Four" PPVs that WWE produces on a monthly basis have not been able to surpass the mark of 200,000 domestic buys for any individual event so far in 2006, while a UFC PPV that draws 200,000 domestic buys would now have to be considered a big disappointment given the standard that has been set in recent months.

According to WWE's financial statements, the No Way Out PPV drew approximately 140,000 domestic buys; Backlash drew approximately 130,000 domestic buys; Judgment Day drew approximately 140,000 domestic buys; One Night Stand drew approximately 170,000 domestic buys; Vengeance drew approximately 190,000 PPV buys; and the Great American Bash drew approximately 130,000 PPV buys. Pay-per-view sales information for this year's edition of SummerSlam is not yet available.

What's clear in these figures is that the UFC's many shows on Spike TV, not only The Ultimate Fighter but also the regular airings of older fights on UFC Unleashed and the well-produced PPV preview shows, do a much better job of convincing people to buy PPV events than WWE's five hours of weekly original programming (one hour on Sci Fi Channel, two hours on USA Network, and two hours on UPN, which will soon become The CW Network).

Though WWE still draws significantly higher television ratings than the UFC, more and more people in the United States are willing to plunk down 40 dollars to buy the UFC's pay-per-view events, while an ever-shrinking amount of people are willing to spend the same amount of money to buy WWE's PPV events.

[Believe]

How many UFC PPV events are there per year?

[Dis]

More info from Wiki concerning Buy Rates and revenue:

With the increased visibility, UFC's pay-per-view buy numbers exploded. UFC 52, the first event after the completion of the first season of The Ultimate Fighter, drew a pay-per-view audience of 280,000, nearly double their previous benchmark of 150,000 set at UFC 40. Following the second season of The Ultimate Fighter, the UFC's much-hyped rubber match between Randy Couture and Chuck Liddell drew an estimated 410,000 pay-per-view buys at UFC 57. For the rest of 2006, pay-per-view buy rates continued to skyrocket with 620,000 buys for UFC 60, 775,000 buys for UFC 61 which featured the second fight between Ken Shamrock and Tito Ortiz, the coaches of The Ultimate Fighter 3. [1] UFC 66, featuring Tito Ortiz facing Chuck Liddell in their highly anticipated rubber match, garnered 1,050,000 buy rates, the current PPV buy rate record for the UFC and MMA in general.[2]

The UFC broke the pay-per-view industry's all-time records for a single year of business, generating over $222,766,000 in revenue during 2006, surpassing WWE and boxing. The UFC grossed more revenue in 2006 on PPV than any promotion in history. [3]

[ashatumar]

I thought Jean Claude Van Damme proved that MA was > boxing in "The Quest?"