The Video Thread

I would have whipped out my "Pocket Kimbo" and serves some whoopass on tubby the Ex-Con.

... Bonzai

[The Bog]

He pretty much decked that guy; if I saw that shit happen, I sure as hell would not do anything apart from call the po-lice.

[Kilivek]

what a bunch of pussies. I would have immediately encaved some fucking skulls.

[Tuco]

For those who know more about the law than I -> What would've happened legally if he had a buddy there who took a knife and stabbed Ex-Con-Fatty in the throat, killing him, while he was beating the shit out of 'Scarpino" ? The knife would be a 'legal' knife.

[Mkopec1]

Originally posted by Tuco
For those who know more about the law than I -> What would've happened legally if he had a buddy there who took a knife and stabbed Ex-Con-Fatty in the throat, killing him, while he was beating the shit out of 'Scarpino" ? The knife would be a 'legal' knife.

If you could prove that your life was in danger, fatty dies and you walk.

[Dintorr]

Judging from the size of fatty ex-con, a case could certainly be made for disparity of force, especially since the victim was clearly stunned and unable to defend himself.

Where I live, that's grounds for lethal force.

[Wiretwister]

Originally posted by Brittney
If all the people standing their watching and holding their dicks actually helped then he could have been stopped.

On an amazingly non-related side note... What Brittney said sounds amazingly like things i've witnessed during PVP in WoW lol. =) Get off your ass and help stop the invasions of the opposing faction.

[Tuco]

we have a list of people that A: Don't help when we fight or B: Tell us not to kill horde because they're not aggressive.

[Dhameon]

Originally posted by Tuco
For those who know more about the law than I -> What would've happened legally if he had a buddy there who took a knife and stabbed Ex-Con-Fatty in the throat, killing him, while he was beating the shit out of 'Scarpino" ? The knife would be a 'legal' knife.

If it was his buddy, he would go to jail. He would have to say he was defending himself and had to use lethal force but he was never attacked albiet his friend was being attacked. If he tried to help and in turn was getting his ass beat, had no choice but to cut his throat, than maybe if you could prove his life was on the line.

[Khalikryst]

Originally posted by Dhameon
If it was his buddy, he would go to jail. He would have to say he was defending himself and had to use lethal force but he was never attacked albiet his friend was being attacked. If he tried to help and in turn was getting his ass beat, had no choice but to cut his throat, than maybe if you could prove his life was on the line.

Actually I think it depends on the state. In Texas, you're allowed to use lethal force to protect someone if you are certain that they think they are at risk of being killed or grievously injured. The operative thing (as I have been told) is that it's a matter of whether the victim thinks they are at risk or not, and it's not enough for YOU to think they are at risk.

It's tricky though because depending on the lawyers/judges involved you may have to find a way to prove that you knew the person you were protecting actually believed they were at risk and then of course if the person you defended testifies that they didn't think they were about to be hurt/killed then you're pretty fucked.

Generally the only "safe" way to assist someone like that is if they say "help me, this guy is about to kill me" and there are witnesses to back up that he asked for help. Even then, you may still have to prove in court that you felt that the victim truly believed they were at risk.

IANAL of course, but I went to a "right to bear arms" seminar thingy some time back and that's what they told us anyway.

Originally posted by Khalikryst
Actually I think it depends on the state. In Texas, you're allowed to use lethal force to protect someone if you are certain that they think they are at risk of being killed or grievously injured. The operative thing (as I have been told) is that it's a matter of whether the victim thinks they are at risk or not, and it's not enough for YOU to think they are at risk.

Khal is pretty damn close to accurate here, one of the most sensible replies I've seen to violence posted on these forums in a long time. In fact, if you search for "lethal force" in hte forums you should find the "Father runs over dude with SUV" thread someplace.

What you are doing is not really using deadly force to protect somebiody, but rather using deadly force to stop/prevent a felony. In this case I'm pretty damn sure it's afelony to beat the shiat outta that dude. Regardless, yes you can use deadly force if you are a bystander in this situation, but there is a "gotchya" when you do.

You have to "verbalize" your intent. You just can't whip out your knife/gun and have-at-it. Just like cops and such, you have to make your intentions clear to the perp. You have to shout something along the lines of "Stop what you are doing or I'm gonna use [weapon]!" In 1984 it was ruled that the perp does not have to repsond or even acknowledge you. In a situation like this there would have been plenty of people around to hear you yell, so you would be safe to act after that.

But even then it's not 100% sure you wont end up in court being sue'd by an ex-wife or sonething. In this situation when you are not being directly attacked, it's best to wound first, then turn deadly. So yell first, and if he doesn't respond, shot/stab him in the leg. Then when he turns on you and doesn't stop, turn deadly and plant one right between the eyes. This is what cops are trained to do. You'll survive a whole lot better in court if you wound before being deadly.

It's tricky though because depending on the lawyers/judges involved you may ...

Yeah, surviving the courtroom is often tougher than the battle grounds.

IANAL of course, but I went to a "right to bear arms" seminar thingy some time back and that's what they told us anyway.

Same here, but I went a long ways further. I've taken 3 (3-day) course in Federal law regarding this matter. One to get my CCW , and then another course to get my FFL. That means not only can I buy/sel guns, but I can own machine guns too. Woot!

(CCW = Carry Concealed Weapon, FFL = Federal Firearms License.)

The amazing thing that these courses teach you, is not how to become a gun wielding maniac, but simply how to be an American.

So to answer the original question ... Yes you can use deadly force with your knife, but you have to do it in a certain way to avoid being tossed in jail or loosing a big civil case.


... Bonzai

[Tuco]

I think given the choice of letting some random guy take an asskicking, or brandishing you knife, and say, "Don't make me poke you." I'd pick the former.

I'd rather be the 400lbs behemoth than the skinny white dude with a knife he normally uses to cut pizza's with(or something) but I'm sure you could sucker-stab him in the throat with it in that kind of situation.

[Dintorr]

You have to "verbalize" your intent. You just can't whip out your knife/gun and have-at-it. Just like cops and such, you have to make your intentions clear to the perp.

Not where I live. And I'm pretty sure not where you live either. In fact, this is the first time I've ever even seen this brought up. Do you have a cite you can throw our way?

In this situation when you are not being directly attacked, it's best to wound first, then turn deadly.

And how does someone do that, when merely using a gun or a knife is considered "lethal" force? There is no such thing as "shooting to wound." Besides, civilians are not required to adhere as strictly to the force continuum as the police. As the infamous Tuco says "When it's time to shoot, shoot don't talk."

That means not only can I buy/sel guns, but I can own machine guns too. Woot!

In the state I live in, I can buy a machine gun just by paying the Federal stamp tax. No CCW or FFL is required.

Dintor, what state do you live in?

In regards to the machine gun, sure anybody can buy one by paying the stamp.

A FFL holder still has to possess the machine gun during the whole process. If you get refused, not only do you not get a refund but the FFL holder then has to handle the gun and track it's return back to the seller.

As a FFL holder, I can buy it, have it shipped to me, and have it in my possession the whole time. FFL holders never have their application rejected, so it's a 100% win situation.

... Bonzai

[Dintorr]

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Gawga