Fuck Apple.

[Northerner]

Originally Posted by tomodachi

How about forwarding an X11 app over an SSH tunnel from a remote server?
Or scripting in perl?
Or something like: grep 'from=<' mail.log | awk '{ print $7 }' | sort | uniq -c | head?

In most of those cases, doing that on a Window box is a pain in the ass. Possible? Sure... but it certainly isn't built around it to the degree that OSX is.

For the 'average' bearded UNIX guy out there OSX is a better tool than any Windows OS is. Does that mean it's a better OS in any absolute sense? No. It would suggest you need to be a bit more careful about throwing around terms like 'computer users even slightly above average', however.

For the average bearded UNIX guy, UNIX is a better tool for many thing. Hell, it really is the preferred tool for many, many activities if you know it inside and out. OSX however is not preferable because it is magically 'closer' to *NIX and if you want to boot your favorite Linux flavor then you do so. It isn't a bad O/S particularly but it is not the special snowflake either.

Essentially, anything technical that you can do in OSX you can do through Windows. Sometimes the process may be arcane to someone that doesn't know it and sometimes you'll use third-party apps or custom work to get what you want done but this isn't new. Perl scripts and grepping? Come on, that's not exactly new territory for a PC.

Bearded UNIX guys like OSX because they are hippies at heart and have to keep up the hate for the man. That's fine and I get it but let's not pretend that there's really any technical reasoning.

[Palum]

Mac products exist in their very own little bubble market perpetuated by their exclusivity. Some are truly good products and well developed, like the iPod. Others... well let's just say I gave up on Macs back when the error message sound was a loud obnoxious quack.

If Apple actually tried to have their products interface with the rest of the world they might actually compete for market share instead of just niche ratings. The iPhone application certification BS is just one of the more recent examples of retardation. Sure cloud computing, SaaS and vmware, great. Bring the software to Apple. You still won't be able to buy a Mac for 300 dollars at Best Buy because you can't run OSX on anything but shiny plastic made by Apple.

[brekk]

That my biggest issue with Apple, its not the commercials, its not the price, its not the annoying fanboys. (though i do fucking hate them) It's the apple approach of making everything proprietary and locking it down as much as possible.

The issues with jail breaking on the iPhone, OS updates breaking them from working on non-Apple hardware, blocking devices like the Pre from syncing with their computers. They may not have a lot of market share, but they abuse it far worse than Microsoft ever has.

[Daerath]

Originally Posted by Darus Grey

Bill Gates invested 150~mil back in...uh 97/98? When Steve Jobs first returned to Apple.

It was significant then since the company was only worth a few billion at the time, now apple is worth alot more compared to Microsoft(200bil~ vs 300 bil~).

So yes, it's true.

Microsoft invested $150 million in Apple back in 1997. It wasn't Bill's personal cash. As for Apple being worth more than Microsoft, that is definitely not true. Apple's total stock value at the current market value (before trading opens today) is $167,229,606,250. Microsoft's is $278,787,179,580.

This thread is gay.

[JohnQuincyAdams]

I've never owned a mac, but my housemates did. Whenever my pc had problems I could usually fix it by myself, but if their macs had trouble they'd have to mail it to a manufacturer and wait in queue for two weeks. They swore Apple was a "good" company and Microsoft was evil. what the fuck ever

[FoghornDeadhorn]

Originally Posted by Orun

.

Continuing my tradition of drive-by Tim Buckley bashing: "subliminal"? Really? You fucking moron.

CAD sucks; stop posting it.

[KilyinRZ]

Originally Posted by Lenas

Did you really try to claim the OS is shitty and back it up with a video that's like 10 years old? Shut the fuck up. OSX is slick, has some great developers creating apps for it, and until Win7 came out Microsoft couldn't hold a candle to it.

You're a perfect example of some tard that parrots all the bullshit from those worthless commercials. Windows has been kicking the shit out of Mac OS since 98 and one could argue even earlier. There's a reason 95% of the business world uses and will continue to use Windows.

[ToeMissile]

There is less and less distinction between either platform, both are valid options and your needs should dictate which you use. Obviously each has advantages and disadvantages compared to the other, but to claim either is a pos or clearly better (as a whole) than the other is rampant fanboyism.

As far an APPL vs MSFT, I posted this a few pages back and no one seemed to see it:
From 5 Nov

[Eyashusa]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

Firefox + noscript + common sense solves 99% of windows virus potential problems. Not buying windows because of virus infection potential is only an excuse for your average braindead consumer. (Nearly everyone who would benefit from a mac!) Oh you can still get infected sure but I am sure I am not the only one here who has run without virus problems for years on common sense alone.

Relax, it was a joke. I have my windows computer too and I do all that stuff. I was given the laptop as a gift before graduate school and my point was I do fuck all with it now that I'm not in school.

[tomodachi]

Originally Posted by Northerner

For the average bearded UNIX guy, UNIX is a better tool for many thing. Hell, it really is the preferred tool for many, many activities if you know it inside and out. OSX however is not preferable because it is magically 'closer' to *NIX and if you want to boot your favorite Linux flavor then you do so. It isn't a bad O/S particularly but it is not the special snowflake either.

I don't really care to get into which flavor of UNIX or UNIX-like OS is 'best' for the average bearded UNIX guy, because it's as foolish as arguing about which OS is the 'better' (in absolute terms) between OSX and whatever flavor of Windows is being considered. It's like arguing that a hammer is the better tool before knowing what work needs to be done.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at by the 'magically' closer remark though. My earlier statement was (in summary) that OSX is better at performing many common UNIX tasks than Windows (any flavor) is. Do you disagree with that statement? Are you arguing that OSX is no more UNIX-based than Windows?

Essentially, anything technical that you can do in OSX you can do through Windows. Sometimes the process may be arcane to someone that doesn't know it and sometimes you'll use third-party apps or custom work to get what you want done but this isn't new. Perl scripts and grepping? Come on, that's not exactly new territory for a PC.

I didn't say a Windows-based PC couldn't do any of that. I was merely rattling off a few of the sorts of things I do day in and day out which are far, far more easily and quickly accomplished in OSX than they would be under any Windows OS. I could just as easily rattle off things that are far, far more easily and quickly accomplished under Windows than OSX. The point, once again, is that the 'better' OS depends entirely on the context of the problem at hand.

Bearded UNIX guys like OSX because they are hippies at heart and have to keep up the hate for the man. That's fine and I get it but let's not pretend that there's really any technical reasoning.

I used the bearded UNIX guy phrase purely in counter to a previous poster's assertion that any 'above average computer user' would never choose a Mac over a Windows-based PC. I think few will argue that a true bearded UNIX guy is at least an 'above average computer user'.

[Zerai]

I think the best part of this thread is it reminds me of myself 5-8 years ago.

I use Macs and PCs now. I used to hate Macs because of ideological lines, which is a lot of you, though you'd never admit it, much like I wouldn't have.

Now that I use macs..I hate them for brand new reasons. Which are very similar to why I hate PCs in a lot of cases. Comes down to trying to do certain things and being limited. And the company is evil incarnate.

And saying OSX sucks is just ignorant. 99% of what you do on a computer does not require you to dig deep into OS's to accomplish your day to day computer use. And if you want to, you can in OSX. Most of us are just more comfortable doing it on a PC because we have been for the last decade+. And when I'm using my macbook, it's infinitely more comfortable and nice to use than any PC laptop I've used to date. I enjoy not needing a mouse for web browsing, and actually prefer the mac trackpad to a mouse if thats the sort of thing I'm doing (obviously not gaming). Means you can actually use a laptop as...shock..a laptop. PCs are definitely late to the party in that respect.

Obviously if you want to game, PC is better. No doubt about it. When I'm preforming diagnostics on my PC, it's also easier (again goes back to experience). It's true. Also nice to do my online banking on my macbook without even having to worry about potential viruses and shit. And that isn't because of the bullshit mac spews, it's quite in line with CAD.

[Venjenz]

I wish someone would make a commercial that had PC and MAc doing their typical witty banter, and then Open Source shows up, kicks Mac's ass to a bloody pulp and then bitchsmacks PC and tells him to stop being a pussy. Dress Open Source as a ninja or pirate. Perfect.

[Northerner]

Originally Posted by tomodachi

My earlier statement was (in summary) that OSX is better at performing many common UNIX tasks than Windows (any flavor) is. Do you disagree with that statement? Are you arguing that OSX is no more UNIX-based than Windows?

I didn't say a Windows-based PC couldn't do any of that. I was merely rattling off a few of the sorts of things I do day in and day out which are far, far more easily and quickly accomplished in OSX than they would be under any Windows OS.

Actually, I was mostly just being a devil's advocate anyhow. I'll be honest in that I've never really used OSX in any professional capacity and I'm sure it has advantages that I'm not seeing right now. The most often mentioned one though is it's UNIX heritage and frankly, I just don't see the point. If I want to use certain UNIX commands and functionality then there are ample tools for doing so on a Win box or one can swap over to the Linux install or whatever is needed. I don't know, perhaps it is even easier on an OSX box but things aren't exactly hard right now and I'm far from a UNIX guru.

Regardless, I was basically just going for some light trolling and frankly, I think we pretty much agree anyhow. I just find it somewhat amusing that after the last twenty some years I've seen the cycle of hate finally turn on Apple of all companies!

Originally Posted by tomodachi

It's like arguing that a hammer is the better tool before knowing what work needs to be done.

Originally Posted by me

They serve different roles.

[Taranatar]

Macs are (generally) better (at the individual and creative level) because they're built to do (almost) anything the average user will do, but with very high end hardware and almost entirely in-house software. So essentially they're extremely overbuilt and their software/hardware base is mostly developed by a single company, so they have an extremely high incentive to get things right and working (also it's a lot easier)

The reason people have problems with PC's is that they're complete fucking idiots, trying to spend a couple hundred dollars to do everything think they 'know a guy' and are complete fucking idiots.

Most people are also complete fucking idiots.

Fucking idiots.

[brekk]

Originally Posted by Taranatar

very high end hardware and almost entirely in-house software. So essentially they're extremely overbuilt and their software/hardware base is mostly developed by a single company

Why do people think this shit? Their CPUs are Intel, Videocard is Nvidia or ATi, Hard drives one of the big name makers, disc drives big name maker, the screen for the iMac is made by LG. Their motherboards are made by Foxconn and Asus.

The Apple experience is a package you pay a high premium for, and they lock down every aspect of it as much as possible, but the underlying hardware is not special.