Do you believe there is a higher being or not?

[Vim]

Man they really need to hurry up on that hadron collider...

Waiting for the day they rip through space time and into another dimension/parallel universe... So I can jet the fuck out of this boring planet, dimension, universe... And finally shut those religious nuts up.

That or discover an efficient way to manipulate space time...

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by Eomer

Honestly though, Hitchens really does go about it all in the wrong way, you'll never persuade or change anyone's mind doing what he does.

Why not? Bombastic, viscous and damning words have worked for religions for thousands of years. What makes you think they won't work for logic and reason?

[PigBenis]

This thread should be stickied.

[Grooverider]

Originally Posted by Scape667

Christopher Hitchens always says it best...

Damn, that was cold as ice. It would have been interesting to see the responses to that.

[PigBenis]

Originally Posted by Grooverider

Damn, that was cold as ice. It would have been interesting to see the responses to that.

That guy's the fucking anti-christ.

[Grooverider]

Originally Posted by PigBenis

That guy's the fucking anti-christ.

I think he's fantastic.

[Screamfeeder]

Originally Posted by Grooverider

Damn, that was cold as ice. It would have been interesting to see the responses to that.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

---Here is where that other video picked up(about 4 minutes in).---


---Responses are in the above video and this one.---

Spoilered for the whiny bitch below me.

[Picasso]

If someone watches all that i will paypal them $1

I'm pissed off i even had to scroll through it.

[Erronius]

Originally Posted by Round

Edit: Eomer, Yeah I do know that Benny Hinn spends nights tons of money for his own comfort. The only way you can understand this is if you think like a Christian.

Think like a Christian? In this entire thread, I think that idea is what bothers me the most. My concept of a person who performs miracles, is not someone who uses television to 'reach the masses', therefore increasing their potential income far beyond their ability to perform miracles, if we assume for a moment that they can. How many does Benny heal at a show, 20? 50? How many send him money, 500k? 1 million or more?

When I think of a paragon of Christian miracle workers, I think of Jesus. And to be frank, I don't remember any tale or parable where Jesus charged an admission charge or passed out fliers to generate a large crowd of rubes spectators. In fact, how Benny Hinn goes about his "miracles" seems to me to be an exact polar opposite of how Christ went about it. So, yeah, I do have a bit of a problem with this bullshit of "You can't understand it, unless you think like a Christian" and that leaves me with the impression of "you don't, I do, therefore you're wrong" which seems to flow from that statement in a logical progression if one takes it further, and that doesn't seem to bolster the argument.

Originally Posted by Round

But a pastor I respect once gave this example...
"A Neurosurgeon makes tons and tons of money to save a patient's life during surgery. And his job is quite rewarding and he deserves every penny! How much would you pay a Neurosurgeon to save your brain? How much would you pay a Lawyer to prove you innocent in a false trial? How much would you pay a cardiologist to examine and treat your body so that you can avoid a stroke or possible death? We'd pay tons of money to get this done in our lives so that we can keep on living. people will pay everything they can, and will even sell their possessions just to see someone survive. Now how much would you pay to save someone from being burned in hell for eternity? Priceless. "

Holy shit, a Pastor told you this? I know that others who are more opposed to the Church might say "Well, it IS the Church, and you know how they are about money...", but let me sidestep that for now.

It just seems like old school Catholicism to me, selling salvation. It reminds me of Pardoners and Indulgences.

Of course, in that you segued from Benny allegedly performing miracles, to the Priesthood selling you salvation. Not that it matters much to me, I don't think it is morally right to attach a pricetag to either, especially when you are discussing a religion that puts a premium on salvation by way of, you know, being a good person.

Originally Posted by Round

So I give to the kingdom (churches) so that they can continue doing what they do to save people from hell. Does it hurt me? Does it effect my bill payments? Do I sacrifice anything that I need? No. Do I have enough to keep on advancing in life? Ohh yes! and I just don't give $1, sometimes I give hundreds, and I even break into the 4 digits. It's all good... I know they help the poor, they feed the needy, they do all of that. So in all.. How the pastor decides to spend his time... I'm all for it. If he wants to drive around in a Ferrari, I encourage him. As long as he keeps on doing what hes doing, and does it faithfully.... No problem.

How does driving a Ferrari help him to save people? It, and items like it, are frivolous expenditures that shouldn't happen. I mean, FFS, you mention money going to feed the poor and the needy above, well shit, how many people could you feed with the money from something like a Ferrari? Did Mother Teresa drive around in a motherfucking Hummer, stopping at auditoriums to dance around on stage and smack people in the forehead?

And that's bullshit too. If a person really were so holy, and interested in the poor and the downtrodden, they sure as shit wouldn't be doing what Benny does, they wouldn't be getting rich from it. Would a holy man, when faced with choosing between buying 10 new suits, and helping a starving family, choose the suits? God help me, but the answer should be no. Whatever happened to the austerity that people think of when they imagine a miracle worker? Now we have some fuckstick ripping off people for 'miracles', I mean that alone is bad enough, but people defending it...

And this goes deeper still, but I'm only going to mention this last bit. I cannot believe that God would continue to work through him, or any televangelist, to be truthful. Especially not the same God that worked through Moses, tied in with the Golden Calf/ idolatry / wealth angle. Especially not in light of Jesus at the Temple, kicking ass because the moneychangers were making a PROFIT from people who were coming there to hear the Word of God!!! Seriously, with all the evidence that should point towards a God that frowns on such behavior, you are arguing that Benny deserves such wealth, or that God would choose to work through him? It's just wrong on so many levels in how I see it, it's almost hard to come to grips with the sheer...wrongness of it.

Originally Posted by Jeremiah 7:11

Has this house, which is called by My name, become a den of thieves in your eyes? Behold, I, even I, have seen it,” says the LORD.

Originally Posted by Mathew 21:12-14

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.

And I'm not even getting into the bullshit of the operation, with how they scam. That doesn't make it any better.

[Sutekh]

Sorry guys, just filling the quota for the month of September.