Do you believe there is a higher being or not?

[AngryGerbil]

Wasn't it in the very first Beyond Belief conference where Neil Tyson sets up this huge chain of the smartest people in history like Euclid, Ptolemy, Hyugens, Newton etc who all made these huge leaps in science, reached the end of their ability to understand and then fell back on an appeal to God? Tons and tons (if not most) of them did this. "Hey guys look! I discovered A, B, and C! But I can't quite figure out D...it must be God." Then the next guys comes along and figures out D and E but claims F must be God. Then the next guy figures out F......you get the point.

You should be glad Round. If you are finding some things about physics mystifying, just wait a while. Someone else will figure it out for you.

[Round]

Originally Posted by AngryGerbil

Wasn't it in the very first Beyond Belief conference where Neil Tyson sets up this huge chain of the smartest people in history like Euclid, Ptolemy, Hyugens, Newton etc who all made these huge leaps in science, reached the end of their ability to understand and then fell back on an appeal to God? Tons and tons (if not most) of them did this. "Hey guys look! I discovered A, B, and C! But I can't quite figure out D...it must be God." Then the next guys comes along and figures out D and E but claims F must be God. Then the next guy figures out F......you get the point.

You should be glad Round. If you are finding some things about physics mystifying, just wait a while. Someone else will figure it out for you.

Yeah, its an on going investigation. Like I was telling Scream, each law is linked with another law and so forth. Just when you discover a new law, its being controlled by another ( your D and F ). I'm not diving into the unknown. Or at least just yet but it really does interest me a lot. It'll interest anyone no matter what religion or faith they may be. It's just the beauty of life itself and it should be treasured.

[Tullaeniel]

Originally Posted by Round

Want me to answer this with biblical verses?

I believe in

Bullshit 14:6 "The lord sayth: God is kind of like WMD's in the middle east. All of our intelligence point to there being so such thing. Then comes along this retard who's like "Hey guys, unicorns are real and I ride dinosaurs. So follow me for the big W." So reluctantly people follow this guy by ignoring logic and jumping to a conclusion that is what faith is.

Then we search like mad men and find nothing. At this point here people who have critical thinking skills decide "Hmmm that retard who rides dinosaurs is full of shit." Here is lies the problem though, most people are fucking fools so all they can remember is "Hey the retard said it's true so it must be durrrr."



So you try to explain to them in detail, but they cannot compute logic so they scare quickly.



And thus this went on for generations. Until the great garbage avalanche of 2505.



And that is where babies come from for machines.



So in Raptor Jesus name we prey.



Making shit up and declaring it as fact is fun. I'm gonna be a preacher.

[AngryGerbil]

rofl

No one else is an easier target to not only convert to atheism but to totally and completely convince that religion is an absolute sham than these people. The key is just to get them to admit to themselves that they willingly participated in a massive groupthink/peerpressure event. This would all have to be done retrospectively of course because I have no doubt they believed it to be a true supernatural phenomenon at the time ("Well, yeah I took a dive, but no way EVERYONE did, so it MUST have been magical!!").

All they have to be is intellectually honest to themselves in the mirror for one full second. It seems like such a simple task for me, but then again I was raised with it. I never would have believed that most people on earth are incapable of it. I was well into my adult years before it truly dawned on me and still to this day it boggles my mind. The human animal is an amazing thing to behold.

[Round]

Originally Posted by Tullaeniel

Stuff

It's tough! I totally understand how tough it is to actually believe in something with no physical evidence.

From my understanding of everything. I can actually relate to how biblical teachings can be applied into today and have everything some how, "fit" together without clash. Some things that may even have you asking how on earth did the people several thousand years ago knew such a thing.

DON'T READ IF YOU ARE NOT CAPABLE OF GIVING A HUMBLE AND EDUCATED OPINION!!

But like many things that can be observed by experience, you won't be able to understand it unless you try to think like it. For example a doctor will have to go through training in order to think like a boxer, and an engineer will have to go through training in order to think like a soldier. To get more into what I'm talking about, you'll have to train yourself to think like someone in a foreign country. I've done my research on this, the people in Europe actually have a different way of analyzing things than we do. Old School scholars have a different method of observing ancient text, then scientists observe the nature of the world. This is pretty obvious to all.

Ok, so based on my training in the university, job discipline, overall experience, and self conducted research in physics, engineering, science and the such. I can honestly say that there is a relationship with science and the bible. It's not written in black and white, but you'll be forced to think a different way in order to see it. Psychologist's think like a child in order to determine their development, they understand it. So in the biblical case we're better of saying, think like Jesus (since hes the prime example).

Pieces of the old testament you are introduced to a new part of nature which is not really considered nature. We can say this is the spirit realm. According to the bible this is the part of nature which fills in the ultimate unknown, how exactly? I have no clue. We don't have any physical access to this dimension...BUT, the new testament (and old testament ) reveal to us, how to feel it, and understand it. At the state of understanding the spirit, a new form of logic will come into your mind. But, it's a logic that cannot be understood by the typical way of thinking. It's strange thing, but nothing seems to contradict each other. However there remains that certain missing link to unify both spirit and physical.

Now let me get into details.... Theres so much that can be discussed about each aspect. Let's start with the creation of the universe. We can determine the age of the universe to be Billions years old, evolution came to play with the primary elements mixing around to create other elements and stuff, and by chance everything just fell into existence. This sounds good, theres proof of it too. I can't remember which is the element with the greatest radioactive decay life span. But it's a damn heavy number. That's that. So now you have evidence of an element that can survive for an extremely long time, but as our knowledge progressed, there came Albert Einstein who started to investigate relativity and came across the measurements of light and observed something very very strange. The properties of light are infinite. Screamfeeder if you're reading this, this is where Einstein got frustrated and he began to suspect of a God. If our oldest element can survive for X amount of time, how then is a photon, infinite? This only leads to suspect that even during the ultimate beginning, something was before it. But Einstein refused to believe in such a thing. So Eternity in essence, exists! Black Holes support this idea, but it's a phenomenon we know little about yet.

Ok, so how can I tie this with the bible. Well let's start by saying Moses wrote the first few books including Genesis, which in theory is true. Bible says that the first thing God created was the heavens and the earth and darkness was all over it. Then there was light and all the such and continues out to Adam and Even. Ok, now lets stop. There is a time gap somewhere in between the creation of the heavens and earth, and when he became light or something like that. See if you were to read without knowing what else is in the bible the whole " When did satan fall during genesis chapter 1 " would totally pass by your head. So there indeed was a time gap. How long? who knows? Who knows how long God had his angels flying around the heavens. Maybe our oldest radioactive date answers that? See, I'm a firm believer that science can help out Christians understanding what God has put into the universe. But there are too many Christians who believe that science is of the devil, and this is bull! Anyways... Some say that the darkness that was over the earth was actually Satan, before this, I really cannot say what was before it. One can assume that before darkness was light, but Gen. Chap 1 says otherwise when God said " Let there be light ". Other scholars say the light that was created was the separation of sin. Bible teaches that in sin, things have an end, but in his presence theres only life which is eternity.

Later on it explains how God separated the waters and created an expanse between them. Carefully observe this, and think how it can be related to what we see, and what we see if we think like Jesus. Before this, we know that the heavens and a formless earth existed. God set an expanse in between the waters, now we dont know what kind of waters it is referring to. Water can be seen as H2o, the combination of elements that we breath, and space. 3 waters. This could be the moment when God created the other elements that is considered less older than the primary elements. This could also be when the law of gravity was implemented, and the physical realm was created. How do I know this? Bible teaches that God is spirit, Satan himself is an Angel, and we know that Angel's are spirits. So in that Time Gap that I was explaining, the physical realm did not exist yet.

God continues on by setting more boundaries or laws of the physical world until it all came down into what we have today. Many teach that everything was created in 7 days. Might be actual days, but remember about the time gap I mentioned earlier. Somewhere in between the formless earth and creation of light was a huge huge time gap. After that then perhaps God really did do everything in 7 physical days.

So now let me point out another thing. The bible is a very old book, the bible also predicted the properties of light. Just recently we discovered the properties of light, being omnipresent and eternal (plz, see theory of relativity ). Bible says that God is Light. Nature cannot survive without light. We also know that evolution exists because we have physical evidence. We also do know, and bible says so to, that animals existed before humans.

Take all of this, and ball it up into one giant blue print. Then you begin to see how it all fits together with history. Is it a coincidence that the oldest cities in the world are located in the middle east, including Egypt? Bible also discusses the separation of races, and languages.


And....time for me to leave. I'm going to watch Gamer! Plz, if you have something to say regarding what I wrote, keep it professional. Like I said, I have studied science. I read how it all works. Genesis works the same way Scientific theories work. Not even Big Bang is a fact, but still a theory! We only dig for more clues. But you cannot deny, that the creation of the universe can indeed fit into Biblical Descriptions. A man of great education will agree to this, but will say something like " It does fit in.. But there's just not enough evidence to support the idea. It's just as invalid as any other idea. "

But I choose to believe it. Our Science just fills in the gaps in my mind.

[Screamfeeder]

Stop it.

[Neferata]

Wow, thanks for that confusing and somewhat terrifying glimpse into the psyche and thought process of a creationist. A few very minor plot holes, but I enjoyed it overall.

[Simas]

Did Round just write a brief essay on why he worships the Sun?

[Eomer]

Round, you blew my mind.

[cosmic_cs]

Originally Posted by Round

It's tough! I totally understand how tough it is to actually believe in something with no physical evidence.

Like I said, I have studied science. I read how it all works. Genesis works the same way Scientific theories work. Not even Big Bang is a fact, but still a theory!

Not only is there no physical evidence for God; there's no evidence whatsoever, of any kind. Of course, this depends on how you define "God". If you define God as energy that runs the universe, then sure, there's evidence for God. If you define God as some guy who modeled us after himself, then no, there's no evidence whatsoever.

Also, if you think Genesis works the same way scientific theories work, then you know nothing about how science works.

[Round]

Originally Posted by cosmic_cs

Not only is there no physical evidence for God; there's no evidence whatsoever, of any kind. Of course, this depends on how you define "God". If you define God as energy that runs the universe, then sure, there's evidence for God. If you define God as some guy who modeled us after himself, then no, there's no evidence whatsoever.

Also, if you think Genesis works the same way scientific theories work, then you know nothing about how science works.

Never said Genesis works the same way theories work. I just said the entire concept fits in together.

Simas.. The sun? what the hell???

[Darus Grey]

Originally Posted by Round

Never said Genesis works the same way theories work. I just said the entire concept fits in together.

Simas.. The sun? what the hell???

Sun worship is pretty much the foundation of all ancient religion, including Christianity.

He's referencing that famous documentary about it...whatever the fuck it was called.

[Campari]

Originally Posted by Round

Never said Genesis works the same way theories work.

Originally Posted by Round

Genesis works the same way Scientific theories work.

Say wha?

[Scaffa]

This question is so passé that even reading it is taking me back in time. Here i'll fix it for you:

1, Do you believe?
1a, Is that working out for you?

Yes - Great, stick with it.
No - Try something else.

[cosmic_cs]

Originally Posted by Scaffa

This question is so passé that even reading it is taking me back in time. Here i'll fix it for you:

1, Do you believe?
1a, Is that working out for you?

Yes - Great, stick with it.
No - Try something else.

The problem is religion affects all of us. Many of the decisions that are made for us are based on religious ideas rather than reason.