The Girls Who Broke Your Heart Thread

[brekk]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

I've tried explaining how this works to other women before but it never gets across. Women always seem to have a hard time understanding how men can completely separate sex and love from each other.

So you'd be okay with your Fiancee banging another guy on the side as long as it's not love?

Send her # my way please.

[Brad2770]

You should try telling your fiance about this and see if she understands. I bet she would. I mean, who are you to determine whether or not she would understand? Cheating piece of shit.

[Stoerm]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

The fuck buddy is completely aware of my situation 100%. Hell I think she knows more about me then I know of myself. She knows I'm getting married. She knows my fiancee is pregnant and just about everything else under the sun. Including stuff my fiancee doesn't now I would bet if there is anything.

My fiancee doesn't know for obvious reasons. It's not something that 90% (random number) of women would go with including you. She isn't a threat to my fiancee. She holds no special place in my heart more then a friend. She is a friend + sex.

I've tried explaining how this works to other women before but it never gets across. Women always seem to have a hard time understanding how men can completely separate sex and love from each other.

Oh and world class douche? Are you telling me the difference between a decent or great man is this one single thing? Period? because I can name of 4 or 5 dozen things that are considerably worse.

Have fun explaining your newly acquired crabs / herpes / std / aids to your fiancee / wife.

Yes, it does make you a douche. Not a spectacular douche, but much above normal douche levels. Most people cheat when a problem develops in their relationship. You're engaged, happily cheating, and still plan on getting married. I foresee a long, happy marriage. You're quite the catch.

Clearly you have the emotional maturity that a successful marriage requires.

[Incognitogamer]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

The fuck buddy is completely aware of my situation 100%. Hell I think she knows more about me then I know of myself. She knows I'm getting married. She knows my fiancee is pregnant and just about everything else under the sun. Including stuff my fiancee doesn't now I would bet if there is anything.

My fiancee doesn't know for obvious reasons. It's not something that 90% (random number) of women would go with including you. She isn't a threat to my fiancee. She holds no special place in my heart more then a friend. She is a friend + sex.

I've tried explaining how this works to other women before but it never gets across. Women always seem to have a hard time understanding how men can completely separate sex and love from each other.

Oh and world class douche? Are you telling me the difference between a decent or great man is this one single thing? Period? because I can name of 4 or 5 dozen things that are considerably worse.

Are you fucking kidding me? You are a world class douchebag because you let it continue and in fact WILL let it continue.

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by brekk

So you'd be okay with your Fiancee banging another guy on the side as long as it's not love?

Send her # my way please.

I've thought about it and honestly I am not sure where I sit on that issue. My thinking on the subject is as such..

I know it's selfish of me to enjoy my freedom but to deny hers (assuming she wanted to do the same) if I did deny hers that is.
-OR-
I could be ok with it and what difference does it make if she does? The question of our relationship is based on love. Something that sex does not make nor destroy (IMO). In which case I have defined love as something that exists alongside sex but not necessarily with it. of course that excludes love-making which I define as something explicit to love. I have tried explaining the difference between sex and love so for any of you who can't understand this I am sorry. I don't have the vocabulary to make you understand.


Now in the first case it is purely selfishness. In all honesty I imagine if i was married say 30 years then wanting to experiment and try new things is not something I would see as a bad thing. After having been together 30 years the separation between sex and love should be distinct and obvious for all involved. I would not leave my marriage of 30 years if she played around a few times just to try something new. Whoever that guy is, is just a brief second in the long timelime that our relationship has existed. The memories we will have formed are as mountains compared to this fling.

So with that thought it occurs to me that I ask what is the difference between 30 years and doing it and doing it today? Besides time and the strengthening of the bond and the distinction?



In simpler yet massively understated terms.. If love is not sex then why is sex outside of marriage cheating? (And yes I ignore the wedding vows. They are just words and words can be twisted and manipulated. Love is not words it is expression.)

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by Incognitogamer

Are you fucking kidding me? You are a world class douchebag because you let it continue and in fact WILL let it continue.

Let me put this in terms your child like mind is failing to understand. Let us say you imagine the ideal man. Someone who provides for their wife and kids. Someone who shows tokens of their affection. Someone who praises, raises, and disciplines their children correctly. Someone who takes their wife to regular and varied entertainment. Someone who takes their wife and kids on vacation. someone who spends time walking with his wife in the evening and talking to her about work. Someone who doesn't beat her, cuss at her, tear her down or ignore her. Let us say you imagine a man who does all this and then on occasion sleeps with his friend with no strings attached.

A cheater I am on the basis of the vows alone. But beyond that?

Originally Posted by stoerm

Have fun explaining your newly acquired crabs / herpes / std / aids to your fiancee / wife.

You've never slept with a women that was clean before or what? Because I don't sleep with women I don't explicitly trust to be clean and I still use protection....

[Alcestis]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

blahblah

I don't give a shit whether your fuck buddy knows. Obviously, she does. Fabulous straw man (woman?) you set up there. I was concerned with if your FIANCEE knows.

"Let me put this in terms your child like mind is failing to understand". I'm in a successful, rather long-standing polyamorous relationship. Don't presume to tell me what "90% of women wouldn't go with (including you)", because then you come off as an arrogant, ignorant prick. Neither do I have problems separating love and sex. You know what the difference is? All the faults and expectations were brought to the table, rather than the bullshit which will bite you in the ass eventually that you've adopted for no discernible reason except admitted selfishness on your end.

... douchebag.




{edit}: I find it delicious that IF she is part of the 90% of women who can't separate love and sex (by your statistics), you'd be doing the bolded quote in your laundry list of things "the ideal married man" does. Dunno, those odds aren't in your favor. When your fiancee finds out, tearing someone down by omission is still tearing someone down.

Someone who doesn't beat her, cuss at her, tear her down or ignore her.

[Sharmai]

Alcesti your getting angry. I'm not. Stop that. I was pointing out a benefit to not burning your bridges and you don't agree with it. I get that. But you can talk this through rationally.

Congratulations on your long term relationship. What's your point? I pulled out 90% and said it was a random ass number but it doesn't take much foresight to guess most women wouldn't like being cheated on (duh) Just look at your reaction. Your proving the point.

You know what the difference is? All the faults and expectations where brought to the table, rather than the bullshit which will bite you in the ass eventually that you've adopted for no discernible reason except admitted selfishness on your end.

This makes no sense and you know it. faults and expectations brought to the table? what? Will bite me in the end? That's the stuff they teach you in church to keep you scared of reality. In the real world the bully grows up to be a star football player. In the real world the asshole who cheats on all his girlfriends and beats then grows up to become a rich overpaid rapper. In the real world that smart asshole of a kid in your 4th grade class grows up to become that smart white collar crime banker who did 1 year of jail for stealing 200 million of your dollars.

In the real world 50% of marriages fail because of money unlike those happy ever endings people want to believe in. In the real world most murders go unsolved.

Get the idea? Things aren't llike you were always raised to believe so open your world view a little and try to see what I am saying. You may have that fairy tale story but your the exception not the norm. Having a happy and fulfilling life involves thinking outside of your comfort zone.

[Sunnyd]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

stuff

You didnt answer the question. Would you, or would you not be ok if your fiancee/soon to be wife found enjoyment in another man sticking his dick in her? If no, then pass on numbers so we can provide the same level of service for her that you seem to be enjoying.

Dont bother with any of your 30 years later when Im bored arguments...words fail me. Do you even understand why people get married?

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by Sunnyd

You didnt answer the question. Would you, or would you not be ok if your fiancee/soon to be wife found enjoyment in another man sticking his dick in her? If no, then pass on numbers so we can provide the same level of service for her that you seem to be enjoying.

Dont bother with any of your 30 years later when Im bored arguments...words fail me. Do you even understand why people get married?

brekk asked something similar

See response here http://www.fohguild.org/forums/scree...ml#post1380722
If you don't like my response I can't help you.
Your welcome to explain to me why people get married if you feel your understanding is superior.

[Aulirophile]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

Yes I know it's basically agreed cheating on our spouses and that is what it is. She was basically my best friend before we go together in high school so now that we are back to friends it's been great. But the sexual tension always builds up so instead of fighting it or never seeing each other we just hook up once in awhile. So if you have a best friend who you hooked up with and the it went south.. remember this.

So you don't keep your word to your fiancee/wife, but keep it to your fuck buddy. Basically you stick to deals that benefit you. Gotta look out for number one, right?

I hope you realize you don't deserve a good wife, and that risking that kind of emotional harm isn't something you do to someone you "love."

Douchebag.

[Stoerm]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

...

You've never slept with a women that was clean before or what? Because I don't sleep with women I don't explicitly trust to be clean and I still use protection....

I'll ignore your ad hominem attack and actually try to give you food for thought, which you will no doubt ignore.

It's not the sexual cheating that destroys relationships. It's the lying, and the loss of trust. All of your comments address "sex vs love", when it's clear you don't understand that lying about external sexual relationships to a woman will likely destroy or cripple any love they have for you. Either be honest, or don't do it. Man the fuck up -- oh wait, you know how that will play out, don't you? Play the "sex vs love" card all you want. You and everyone reading this knows you're just a greedy bastard who wants to have his cake and eat it too. That is common as hell, but don't pretend you're not a douche. And again, you are several steps beyond that level for doing it in such a systematic, planned way -- WHILE YOU'RE ENGAGED, WHICH IF YOUR BETROTHED ISN'T PREGNANT IS GOING TO BE THE HIGHLIGHT REEL PERIOD OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP.

Your retarded comment aside, condoms (if you really are using them, which is doubtful based on your story) are not 100% effective in terms of pregnancy or STD transmission. It's completely irresponsible of you to subject your unknowing partner to the risks you choose to take, without her knowledge -- period. As an aside, why would ANY male choose to have condom sex when unprotected sex with your fiancee is available? If you're using condoms with your fiancee, shoot yourself in the face.

Your "trust" comment is laughable. You "trust" the person you're lying and cheating with, even though she knows you're engaged? You're in for a rude awakening in the months or years ahead.

[ToeMissile]

The ONLY issue here Sharmai, is that your fiancee doesn't know. You apparently don't care, that makes you a douche. End.of.story.

[Alcestis]

Spell my name right, please. There really isn't an excuse for CTRL-C and V failing. I'll ignore the condescension, but I apologize for getting irritated when lumped into a category with a random-ass statistic by someone who knee-jerk assumes I'm the norm and not the exception.

Frankly, I don't know where to start ripping apart your argument. I feel like I'm back in Ohio with all these goddamn straw men. Let me make this simple:

- Do you understand why people say you're a douchebag? Because it appears you don't. You seem to think that it's the actual cheating part that will hurt your fiancee more. It won't. Nor should that be the part your "look at your reaction!" statement was directed at (but a commendable effort in attempting to make your opponent look irrational!). It's you having the extended, repeated, PLANNED process without telling her because you're already assuming how she will react. The point I brought up which you failed to realize is related: if you want something like this to not blow up in your face, which it most likely will, you have to make sure all parties involved know. Having said that, am I psychic? Can I predict the future? How do I know for sure your fiancee will find out? Of course I don't fucking know. But the odds aren't in your favor. You're setting your fiancee up for a world of heartbreak (assuming she can't separate love and sex) and you don't seem to give a shit about it. You're trying to justify lying by omission behind the shield of semantics. That is why you're a douche. And THAT is the only issue here.

- You telling me to open my world view a little? Thinking outside of my comfort zone? Whoa. I'm bloody speechless.

-

[Sharmai]

Some of you are still thinking to linear.. let me try to explain why this issue is not so simple...
Conventional wisdom is those vows = trust = never lying to your fiancee about anything ever. Yet 50% of marriages fail from people who give those vows believing in them at the time.

I don't like those odds so I decided to figure out how to improve them. The most common causes of divorce are the following...
1.) Financial
2.) Infidelity
3.) Sexual Dysfunction/Lack of Sexual Relationships-
4.) Major life changes-

I sought ways to defeat these well before I ever got married or even found anyone to commit to. I accepted that I was not a unique snowflake so simply believing i was better then everyone else and choosing to go head long into the problem would not work. Therefore trying to understand the problem and find solutions so I could defeat it became a priority.

The first one was easy. Just work hard, graduate school, get a good job, get a savings, etc etc. I have accomplished that.

The second one is much harder. You see I can make a commitment to never cheat but that only controls myself not her. I can choose to believe that I will find that special women who doesn't cheat ever for any reason but that 50% of marriages in this country fail. That would be me flipping a coin and believing the odds are going to land in my favor because I believe in it so much.


Well I was never a gambling man. So I sought to understand why people cheat and well there are a MILLION reasons. Literally everything under the sun. Never at home. Not enough fun. Just tired of the same old thing. Opportunity knocked. Was drunk. Was an old ex. blah blah blah blah. The point is with so many reasons it was pointless to attack this issue from the front. So I could either live in la la land like 50% of America and believe I would never be cheated on (like I said I don't like those odds) or I could come to terms with the possibility of it happening and deal with it as such. I chose the latter.

That is how I came to question what cheating really means and what it really is. Simple sex just isn't it. Simple sex will never equal spending 20 years of my life with someone and raising children together. throwing away that kind of work and effort for simple fucking sex is just.... just fucking stupid mentality.


So with that realization and the knowledge that sex is not love it should not be hard for any of you to see how I continued on to where I'm at now.