Teen girls made pact to get pregnant

[Horse]

Originally Posted by Ancalagon

You make my point for me. The crux of the argument is property: who owns what? To the extent that government has a purpose, it is to protect against and to respond to the initiation of force against the property of another. So if I come over to you and start forcibly fucking your eye socket, I've transgressed against your property (yourself). What government should not be able to do is to tell you what you can do with your body if you're not initiating force against someone else or their property. I think drug laws, for instance, are immoral because it is not the government's place to tell you what you can or cannot put in your body.

Huh?

"The government does NOT own the bodies of its citizens. Each individual human being owns his own body, and so he/she is the only person who should be able to govern what is done with that body."

The government making a rule saying I can't shit on your face is the opposite of what you're claiming. Thus, there are limits to what I can do with my body (even if it means crapping out some hobo welfare baby - or smoking) specifically because of the effect it has on society / other people.


And so, it is a preventative measure to make drugs illegal because the taxpayer ends up paying for someone who needs medical care because of their drug use, because of the crime surrounding drug abusers, etc.

[Ancalagon]

Originally Posted by Horse

Huh?

"The government does NOT own the bodies of its citizens. Each individual human being owns his own body, and so he/she is the only person who should be able to govern what is done with that body."

The government making a rule saying I can't shit on your face is the opposite of what you're claiming. Thus, there are limits to what I can do with my body (even if it means crapping out some hobo welfare baby - or smoking) specifically because of the effect it has on society / other people.

I can see where the point of confusion is, but note how I phrased the very last part of what you quoted. I didn't intend that to be taken as 'a person can do whatever he wants with his/her body', but rather as 'a person alone can decide what happens to his/her body, especially as it concerns the case at hand'.

If you'd like me to expand upon my ethical beliefs, I'll simply say that I believe a human being, owning his body, can do whatever he wants so long as he does not initiate force against another person or his property.

That being cleared up, me shitting on your face without your consent is not 'ethical', since you own your body and I have no right to do anything to it that you do not consent to.

If I was a female, I would be within my rights -- again, as the owner of my body -- to fuck whomever I so choose, and if pregnancy was the result of said fucking, then so be it. It would not be within the rights of someone else -- be that a person or a group of people styling itself 'the government' -- to physically prevent me from doing what I will with my body.

And so, it is a preventative measure to make drugs illegal because the taxpayer ends up paying for someone who needs medical care because of their drug use, because of the crime surrounding drug abusers, etc.

With respect to your first point, this is a circular rationale if ever I've heard one. Because the government has instituted a system whereby paying for health-care is collectivized, it must also transgress further into the private lives of citizens to ensure the costs society incurs are kept to a minimum. That doesn't reek of bullshit to you? At any rate, the principles I'm expounding upon trump whatever pecuniary concerns the government may have. If Todd wants to get fucked up on heroin, that should be his prerogative. If, while high, he steals some shit, or kills someone, he is fully liable for whatever he did while high. If, while high, he ends up injuring himself, it should not be the responsibility of anyone else to finance his health-care.

As to your second point, firstly, declaring drugs to be illegal has manifestly not made them, and crime related to them, disappear; on the contrary, it has had the opposite effect. Clear your mind for a second and think about this: If the government declares something to be illegal, demand for the thing in question will remain, but the supply of that thing will drop precipitously. As such, prices will skyrocket, and it will become very profitable to satisfy the demand that is out there, despite whatever laws are on the books. The kind of people that will gravitate toward this line of work are the lowest and most dangerous elements of society. By making drugs illegal, you are almost by definition creating FAR more crime than would otherwise occur.

[Taranatar]

Heh, if you think universal health care is a good idea then you agree that the government should own your body. Really, if they're going to pay for it, then they have a right to tell you want to put in it.


I'm already sick and tired of paying taxes to medicare and medicaid so that fatasses and smokers can have all their lifestyle-related problems taken care of with my money.

*edit* Come to think of it, if universal health care came with a monthly minimum health/physical fitness test I think it would do alot of good in the US.

[Kolle]

you must hate all taxes then, considering that in some way all the different programs you help pay for are used to help people other than yourself. some of which are undoubtedly assholes, lazy, and/or fat.

[OhSeven]

It makes me sad that other places in the world have a similar problem my high school did. Between girls getting pregnant, drop outs, a couple of retards not passing, and the occasional kid moving away what started out as a freshman class of over 400 turned into a senior class of 129. I would say in the entire four years we had at least 60 different girls get pregnant, one girl even went so far as to get knocked up 3 times over this period of time from 3 different guys. She came in as a freshman 7 months pregnant, pumped out another at the start of junior year, and was 3 months pregnant again when she walked at graduation.

[Zerai]

Mayor: No support for claims of pregnancy pact

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by OhSeven

one girl even went so far as to get knocked up 3 times over this period of time from 3 different guys. She came in as a freshman 7 months pregnant, pumped out another at the start of junior year, and was 3 months pregnant again when she walked at graduation.

That's awesome. Haha! How is she doing these days? Or did you just graduate last year or something?

[Tripamang]

Originally Posted by Zerai

Mayor: No support for claims of pregnancy pact

For some reason I want to make an odd ball comment about the Mayor having his ear to the ground on teen sex issues.. that he knows his way around a highschool etc...


Sadly I opened the article and saw that they've got a female mayor..

[Zerai]

I got -internets for posting that. Awesome.

[Grimmlokk]

Originally Posted by Fammaden

That's awesome. Haha! How is she doing these days? Or did you just graduate last year or something?

No doubt she's a successful CEO of a Fortune 500 company who donates her spare time to helping those less fortunate.