Have you ever seen a ghost?

[slitz]

I really don't believe in ghosts, but I do love good stories. Keep em coming! 8)

[Gryeyes]

Originally Posted by TheCutlery

Anecdotal evidence is anything but. There's a reason that forensics have supplanted the first person witness in criminal trials. You can say you saw anything you want...doesn't mean you did.

Wait anecdotal is anything but? what the fuck is that supposed to mean haha. Eye witness testimony is not fucking ignored but its highly fallible.

Produce a ghost in the laboratory. Can't? Well, then I guess you're up shit creek aren't you? You know what science calls things that can't be reproduced? FUCKING GARBAGE.

You seem to not have a very good understanding human experience in general. If your concept of what "exists" are only things that can be objectively quantified and observed in a laboratory setting id have to say you are pretty fucking stupid.

There's a difference between logic and trying to grasp for straws to argue that what you've seen is real.

You dont seem to have a good grasp on what logic is to really determine what it is or isnt. A system of logic is limited upon the axioms is based on. Logic doesn't imply truth let alone define truth. Logic has nothing to fucking do with what a person can or cant experience. In fact to say an experience by default is not possible because its not "logical" is one of the most fucking stupid things ive recently seen.

You saw some lighting tricks, some swamp gas, a weather balloon, whatever. You didn't see a ghost because you can't tell said ghost to "Do it again" and have someone else see it.

Brilliant. Because an experience doesn't conform to current understanding and you cant reproduce it at will means that it doesn't exist. Fucking astounding grasp of logic and critical thinking.

Logic is based upon the scientific method. Create a theory (Ghosts exist), test that theory (I saw a ghost!), Reproduce the test (No you didn't), refine your theory, go back to step one. If you're not using that method, well, then you've got some sad state of affairs with your logic.

Wrong again. The scientific method is based on a system of logic. Not the fucking reverse. Your highschool understanding of science and logic to equate to the standards of all possible experience is astounding in how limited that would make your life.

Systems of logic are inherently limited by the axioms they are based on. To summarily dismiss all possible experience that does not conform to a given system is downright fucking pathetic.

I see a transparent figure. I can not explain said experience through any known means. I cannot reproduce said experience. I dont understand said experience. That means said experience didnt happen? You cant possibly fucking believe that.

[Eomer]

Zero evidence to suggest? I suppose you dont consider personal experiences relating to the subject for the history of mankind to qualify as evidence?

No, I don't. Whether they be hallucinations, dreams, mental disease or outright lies there's scant proof or evidence of the existence of ghosts. Given the almost complete lack of evidence of them, I'd say I'm quite justified in "believing" that they don't exist.

Originally Posted by gryeyes

Wait anecdotal is anything but? what the fuck is that supposed to mean haha.

"Anecdotal evidence" is anything but "evidence." Comprende?

I see a transparent figure. I can not explain said experience through any known means. I cannot reproduce said experience. I dont understand said experience. That means said experience didnt happen? You cant possibly fucking believe that.

Considering what we know about how the human mind works and interprets sensory input, it is far, far more likely that you didn't see what you think you saw. Again, whether it was caused by hallucination, dreams, misinterpretation, mental disease, atmospheric conditions, tricks of light, whatever, all of those are FAR more likely to be the cause of what you saw than a supernatural being.

You're appealing to logic (and I readily admit I have not taken university level courses in rhetoric or logic), yet it seems you're making a pretty huge leap of logic yourself.

[Gryeyes]

Originally Posted by Eomer

No, I don't. Whether they be hallucinations, dreams, mental disease or outright lies there's scant proof or evidence of the existence of ghosts. Given the almost complete lack of evidence of them, I'd say I'm quite justified in "believing" that they don't exist.



"Anecdotal evidence" is anything but "evidence." Comprende?

You have created a belief that automatically discounts any possiblity of proof ever being offered. Congratulations.

Considering what we know about how the human mind works and interprets sensory input, it is far, far more likely that you didn't see what you think you saw. Again, whether it was caused by hallucination, dreams, misinterpretation, mental disease, atmospheric conditions, tricks of light, whatever, all of those are FAR more likely to be the cause of what you saw than a supernatural being.

You're appealing to logic (and I readily admit I have not taken university level courses in rhetoric or logic), yet it seems you're making a pretty huge leap of logic yourself.

First off how we interprets sensory input has nothing to fucking do with the probability of ghosts existing or not. So ince again you are discounting any possible evidence based on human experience because human experience is subjective. As i said before congratulations you have just created a belief that can deny ANY evidence presented against it.

[TheCutlery]

Originally Posted by Gryeyes

Wait anecdotal is anything but? what the fuck is that supposed to mean haha. Eye witness testimony is not fucking ignored but its highly fallible.


I see a transparent figure. I can not explain said experience through any known means. I cannot reproduce said experience. I dont understand said experience. That means said experience didnt happen? You cant possibly fucking believe that.

I figured it was obvious, but anecdotal evidence is not evidence. I guess I gotta spell shit out for you.

You see a transparent figure. You can not explain it. You can not reproduce it. You don't understand it. SO IT'S A FUCKING GHOST? That's your fucking logical leap? You're a dumbshit.

All kinds of mental disorders can cause people to believe that they see things or hear things or whatever. Are they really seeing Genghis Khan telling them to slay the hordes of mexicans jumping the fence into america? REALLY?

In closing, you're a dumbshit. I don't think anything else needs to be said. You have no proof of anything. You have some evidence, and then you take it upon yourself to interpret that evidence how you choose to. There's no such thing as a ghost....you just created one to sate your mind.

[Eomer]

You have created a belief that automatically discounts any possiblity of proof ever being offered. Congratulations.

No, I haven't. Again, the only "evidence" we have of ghosts is totally anecdotal, and it's been shown time and again that people are incredibly unrealiable. Considering what we currently know about the way the world works, I find the likelihood of ghost's existence to be quite unlikely, and unless someone presents extraordinary evidence to the contrary I feel justified in believing in their non-existence.

As I said though, I'm a shitty debater, and have probably just painted myself in to a corner. Perhaps others would be better at formulating an argument here.

[Braen]

I found this pic.. Read the description. Idiots love to prove how idiotic they are:

http://www.mysticalblaze.com/GhostPics.htm

The amazing pic above was sent by Samantha in England and whether or not it is a ghost, we agree that it is just awesome. She says "I was looking for somewhere to put this picture because it is so cool!! I went travelling 3 years ago and was a bit camera happy most of the time! These pictures are both taken in Fiji while I was sitting on the beach a night with a friend. I was smoking a cigarette and taking pictures of the scenery when this one came out!!! Is it me or is that not a bird!! awesome hey! don't know if its a ghost or just a fluke but its definitely a massive coincidence that it looks like an x ray of a bird!! It was taken on my Kodak Easyshare camera which was 5 mega pixels!!

[TheCutlery]

Originally Posted by Braen

I found this pic.. Read the description. Idiots love to prove how idiotic they are:

The amazing pic above was sent by Samantha in England and whether or not it is a ghost, we agree that it is just awesome. She says "I was looking for somewhere to put this picture because it is so cool!! I went travelling 3 years ago and was a bit camera happy most of the time! These pictures are both taken in Fiji while I was sitting on the beach a night with a friend. I was smoking a cigarette and taking pictures of the scenery when this one came out!!! Is it me or is that not a bird!! awesome hey! don't know if its a ghost or just a fluke but its definitely a massive coincidence that it looks like an x ray of a bird!! It was taken on my Kodak Easyshare camera which was 5 mega pixels!!

HOLY SHIT A GHOST. GRYEYES WAS RIGHT. REPENT YE SINNERS.

[Eomer]

I think we can all agree, whatever our beliefs on ghosts are, that whoever wrote that email is a dumb cunt.

[Gryeyes]

Originally Posted by Eomer

No, I haven't. Again, the only "evidence" we have of ghosts is totally anecdotal, and it's been shown time and again that people are incredibly unrealiable. Considering what we currently know about the way the world works, I find the likelihood of ghost's existence to be quite unlikely, and unless someone presents extraordinary evidence to the contrary I feel justified in believing in their non-existence.

You have already discounted personal experience and human perception as being a valid means to substantiate it. What possible evidence could be offered? And what exactly are you basing the "likelihood" of a total unknown to exist on?

And more importantly what value does your belief have?

[CabbitCabbit]

Simply stunning

[Gryeyes]

Originally Posted by TheCutlery

HOLY SHIT A GHOST. GRYEYES WAS RIGHT. REPENT YE SINNERS.

Right? I didnt offer a belief one way or the other. Like most rational people i withhold judgment until i can support a position.

Point proven. Substantiated proof of a spirit bird.

[Astrocreep]

thats what pisses me off about the True Believers, its one thing to have an open mind on the possibility of certain things like ghosts and UFOs but when they go to the lengths of hoaxing evidence to prove their theory, it tends to make everyone who had an open mind look like a nutcase. shit happens if you get a pic of it fine but dont manufacture one cuz it hurts your cause.

[Zitar]

Originally Posted by Gryeyes

You have already discounted personal experience and human perception as being a valid means to substantiate it. What possible evidence could be offered? And what exactly are you basing the "likelihood" of a total unknown to exist on?

And more importantly what value does your belief have?

So we can both agree that aliens exist then? The big eyed green oval headed ones.

[Gryeyes]

Originally Posted by Zitar

So we can both agree that aliens exist then? The big eyed green oval headed ones.

Its a possiblity that i dont discount. Ill reserve judgment till more information is presented.