The Gun Thread

[Kais[]]

Call em to check their turnaround time before you send anything to Ruger. They are currently in the midst of the LCP recall and are swamped. I sent in my MkIII 22/45 5 weeks ago for warranty work and have yet to hear a thing.

[eli809]

if you are going for stopping power, a m4/ar15 sucks just as bad as a p90.

[Zeste]

Originally Posted by eli809

if you are going for stopping power, a m4/ar15 sucks just as bad as a p90.

Not if you aim and hit them in the eyeball. 5.56 will slow them down if it is entering through their ocular orifice.

I don't want this thread to become another High Road pissing ground for caliber wars and "stopping power" and "shot placement".

It always boils down to some old timer coming and posting "Shoot the largest caliber you are comfortable and proficient with and is available to you."

[Borzak]

If you do send the Ruger back they will change the transfer bar system to meet the "new" 1973+ models wether you ask them to or not...just make sure you want that done just to get a mag cylinder.

I have a 6-1/2" stainless one from the mid 70's with the new transfer bar system and it's been rock solid reliable.

[eli809]

i was just saying from personal experience m4's are not a good combat weapon.

[ToeMissile]

Originally Posted by eli809

i was just saying from personal experience m4's are not a good combat weapon.

I'd be curious to hear more on this, more specifically on the topic of 'reliability' I suppose. I've never been in real combat but have used MILES gear for Force on Force/security exercises. We used mostly M16's, and they were always a huge pain in the ass with jams and such.

[eli809]

toe they are reliable as they do some abuse. and dont get me wrong they are accurate! but you have to keep them pretty damn clean, and always LOTS of oil on the bolt, which in turns make them dirty because all the dust that they pick up. so that being said you will always want to carry oil with you, other wise they will start jamming once you start putting alot of rounds through them, or they start double feeding which is a pain in the ass. plus as you already know they are a bitch to clean. i would shoot the guy who made that STUPID star chamber.
as for the round. they are too small and travel to fast. most of the time (unless you are spot on) the round will just go through. and they will run away. it doesnt have that knocking down force, or a tumbling effect like other rounds have. most infantry dudes will tell you they hate the m4 because of that.
and i always hated MILES lol sounded soooo cool at first, then it just becomes such a pain in the ass

[EmpireF4i]

Originally Posted by eli809

toe they are reliable as they do some abuse. and dont get me wrong they are accurate! but you have to keep them pretty damn clean, and always LOTS of oil on the bolt, which in turns make them dirty because all the dust that they pick up. so that being said you will always want to carry oil with you, other wise they will start jamming once you start putting alot of rounds through them, or they start double feeding which is a pain in the ass. plus as you already know they are a bitch to clean. i would shoot the guy who made that STUPID star chamber.
as for the round. they are too small and travel to fast. most of the time (unless you are spot on) the round will just go through. and they will run away. it doesnt have that knocking down force, or a tumbling effect like other rounds have. most infantry dudes will tell you they hate the m4 because of that.
and i always hated MILES lol sounded soooo cool at first, then it just becomes such a pain in the ass

Stupid NATO rounds!

I don't plan on using and m4 or ar15 for battle just maybe home defense so if I hit someone with it and they run away that's fine with me.

I'm going to be buying two lowers soon and one will be a m4 with a 16 inch barrel (just because the flash hider) and the other will be a long gun with a 20 inch barrel. Hopefull I can find good parts for them.

[Bristlebane]

Originally Posted by eli809

if you are going for stopping power, a m4/ar15 sucks just as bad as a p90.

Holy shit, you have no idea what you're talking about. Ask people in Iraq how well they work. The vast majority of soldiers are just fine with the performance of 5.56x45.

Something like 85 percent of people in the army polled said M4's are just fine.

[Bristlebane]

Originally Posted by eli809

a tumbling effect like other rounds have. most infantry dudes will tell you they hate the m4 because of that.

...and you've further outed yourself as having no fucking clue what you're talking about. 5.56 does tumble. Not at 25 yards it doesn't, but neither does anything else.

[Bristlebane]

Originally Posted by EmpireF4i

Stupid NATO rounds!

I don't plan on using and m4 or ar15 for battle just maybe home defense so if I hit someone with it and they run away that's fine with me.

For the love of god, I hope no one here is actually getting gun information from this place, full of fucking video gamers. There's so much disinformation in this thread, it's sickening.

If you have ammo that expands worth a shit, i.e. Hornady TAP, it's still better than anything a handgun is going to do. The effectiveness of 5.56 in real combat has been discussed about five thousand times on AR15.com. The overwhelming fact is that it does just fine.

Please go to AR-15.com, THR, TFL, or somewhere else. AR-15.com in particular is full of real combat veterans and other ex-military people.

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The Firing Line

[Laedrun]

Speer has some gold dot bonded core hollow points in 5.56 that are nasty >< they baloon out to a wound cavity like a 50 cal. I've only seen them for sale at the local police distributor though.

[eli809]

Something like 85 percent of people in the army polled said M4's are just fine

way to go, you read polls! they are so accurate. i almost bet it was all the non combat personal that said "we don't mind m4's! they are sweet!" and why are we listening to your superior gun expertise? how many times have you fired more then even 300 rounds in one setting?

o yes, tumbling doesnt come from distance you fuck tard, a bullet doesnt tumble in the air. it comes from impact.

Vietnam 5.56 use to tumble yes. it had a 1 in 12 twist. With the 55 grain bullet, Then the government decided to "improve" it. First, they changed the powder to a ball type. More fowling. Then they went to a faster twist. The bullet was over stabilized so it didn't tumble when it hit. Less damage to the enemy. Twist went from 1 in 12 to 1 in 9. Then they went to heavier bullets. The 1 in 9 stabilized them fine EXCEPT in Extreme cold temperatures. So they went to a faster twist yet. Currently, they use 1 in 7. It stabilizes the bullets alright but pokes a small hole in a body. Thus the common "failure to stop" results.

so far you sir are the one looking like the jackass.

and ya you are right there are alot of gamers here. but they have more of a fucking incite then you, but i will go ask a veteran, but where can i find one?!

o ya



i am one. you dumbfuck

[EmpireF4i]

Originally Posted by Bristlebane

For the love of god, I hope no one here is actually getting gun information from this place, full of fucking video gamers. There's so much disinformation in this thread, it's sickening.

I didnt get my info from here. I have talked to two people, both used the M4 in battle. One of my friends personally said he hit someone with his M4 and the guy got up and kept fighting.

I wouldnt want to go into battle with it, but I would still like to have one for target shooting and home defense.

[Bristlebane]

Originally Posted by eli809

so far you sir are the one looking like the jackass.

No, I'm not. Go to AR15.com, register an account, go to the general section, and ask veterans there what they think about 5.56 and the M4 platform.

First of all, they'll groan because it's been talked about literally thousands of times, but they'll tell you the same thing - - it generally works just fine, both the round and the rifle.

A bullet tumbling does, in fact, have a lot to do with what distance it's fired from. The shorter the distance, the less likely the bullet will tumble when it hits the target. I didn't say they should start tumbling in the air, that's keyholing. When the bullet has more velocity (at a shorter distance) it's less likely to tumble upon hitting a target. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Please, go there, register a name, ask the question, then link the post here. Do it. It'll be highly amusing. You sound like an ill-educated moron, to boot.