Screenshots: An Honest Conversation

[Millie]

I’d like to have an open dialogue about the Screenshots forum. I say this because, after nearly six years of trying to make sense of this particular board, I’m still at something of a loss. I honestly do enjoy this place, and I enjoy the very unique community that has formed and thrived within it. But I’ll be the first to admit that this community is occasionally foreign to me. I don’t always speak your language, nor you my own. So I’d like to ask you guys: what do you want from and of Screenshots? What do you expect of this place? Why do you post here? What would you like to see more or less of?

Let me start by outlining my biggest concern with Screenshots: namely, that the culture of this board is so completely different from the culture of the other boards here at the FoH forums. This has worked for better and for worse over the years. On the plus side, the no-holds-barred (within reason) nature of this board has made it a haven for humor, energy, recreational immaturity, and exercise of free spirit within the fohguild.org community. I get that, I like that, and I respect that.

On the other hand, that culture tends to create and perpetuate a vicious cycle. Back in 2003, the dominant clique within the Screenshots community – a minority of its users, but a vocal minority – had come to set the tone of the board. The clique became a little too comfortable and settled in a little too deeply. Over time, it began to stagnate – preventing new users from settling in or getting acclimated, pushing limits, and creating an annoying culture that threatened to spill over into MMORPG General and the other forums. At the time, Furor stepped in and tried to restore order to Screenshots. The result was an “uprising” among the vocal clique, most of whose members eventually left the FoH boards and settled elsewhere. After they left, things returned to normal on Screenshots for a few years. But gradually, over time, a new clique congealed in place of the old one. In 2005 and 2006, clashes between this new clique and the FoH administration came to a head, and the new clique was forced out. Things calmed down on Screenshots once again. And the cycle will probably repeat itself sooner or later. Some have even told me that they think it’s happening again right now.

And I’d love to stop that from happening. Frankly, I don’t think it needs to happen. But the problem is that, to some extent, it just seems inevitable. From an administrator’s perspective, I’m sort of damned-if-I-do, damned-if-I-don’t on this board. If I moderate the board, I’m reviled as a “fascist.” If I don’t moderate the board, it stagnates and becomes another cesspool – devolving into something resembling /b/, which nobody really wants to see happen. Had I not carefully moderated the Yahoo Live thread, for instance, it would be chock full of child pornography and/or sexually-charged, underage material right now, and the board (and/or some of its users) would be at serious legal risk. Had I not pulled the occasional “Make money now!!!!1” or “Enlarge your penis now!!1” spam out of this board and into the Rickshaw, a really irritating precedent would have been set – namely, that such spam is OK on this board. Hopefully you see what I’m getting at. The point is that the board does, from time to time, need some moderation. It has never made me terribly popular here, but it is the right thing to do. By and large, I tend to leave Screenshots alone. I’d say that 95 threads out of 100 are untouched by my hands or the hands of other administrators and moderators. Nevertheless, Screenshots does need a helping hand every once in awhile – mainly to steer the ship away from the icebergs of complacency and inappropriateness.

Do I make a mistake every now and then? Sure. I’ll take that criticism. It’s very hard not to get emotional sometimes – especially when your job here is largely thankless, when a small but relentless segment of the population seems intent on trolling you at every turn, when your home phone number gets posted in your comments section, and when certain days just make you wonder why the heck you even bother. So yes, I’ll overreact to antagonism on occasion. I’m not proud of it when it happens, and I always feel like absolute shit afterwards. I seriously do. And I apologize utterly and sincerely if you think it’s happened recently. But on the whole, I think such incidents are the exceptions and not the rule. My record is hardly perfect, but I think I’ve been batting about .750 over the years. That’s pretty darned good for a mortal, fallible human being.

At any rate, I’d like to open the floor and see what sort of feedback you have about Screenshots in general. Please note that this is not a referendum on my job, Requiem’s job, Tuco’s job, or anyone else’s. Fortunately (or unfortunately!), we’re not going anywhere. Rather, this is simply my attempt to put myself out there -- to reach out to you guys and say that I like you, and that I want this board to be a better place for everyone here. Since I freely admit that I can’t read your minds, I’d like to know what’s on your minds about the board, about how things work, about each other, and about the topics being created and discussed. Mainly, how can this place improve in a way that satisfies as many people as possible?

Please try to keep your feedback clean, constructive, civil, and mature. This means no flaming or trolling me or each other. There is a big difference between constructive criticism and trolling/name-calling/flaming. Let’s try to accomplish the former. Let's try to generate some positive suggestions for this board, rather than a list of indictments about one another.

Peace and Love,
Me

[Korioni]

My vote's not going to count for much in SS... I'm more of a Millie House member. But my input is simply, mod when it's necessary. Like you have been. This isn't a chan, and the knowledge that moderation will occur when needed is the only reason it doesn't become one.

[Pikn]

I like how these boards are moderated. I'm sure there are lots of people who share my opinion also, but simply don't speak up.

[RiskyChris]

There's a pretty good reason I prefer my gaming discussion here at FoH and not at NeoGAF, and that's the difference in the strata of community and moderation. At GAF, the moderation is harsh and sometimes a bit out of control. Here it's mostly the idiots that get banned, which is pretty fine by me.

Basically, I just don't like seeing people tossed for stupid reasons.

A lot of forums I visit have an FoHSS equivalent (they don't quite have the same spice, however), complete with cliques and what not. I disliked, for the most part, the clique a few years ago because of the "young, dumb, and drunk for the first time" kids. FoHSS is better when it's one big, fun community for a bunch of people who have no relationship to FoH.

Either way, keep on rocking on.

P.S. The rep system was probably not the best thing to have if you are worried about cliques forming, but who knows. It does provide comedy, which is the essence of FoHSS.

[Hydrahead]

Rep system kind of tored this board to shit if you ask me. Its good for some lulz but it swings the pendullum in the direction of 4Chan for better or worse.

[JeydaX]

Moderation is obviously necessary, especially on a board such as this. I think you may have gone too far in the "Yahoo Live!" thread, and may think lesser of us than we (loose term here) are. I think it's a bit overboard to say it would have been full of child porn, but I guess I can see how that would go.

But again, moderation is necessary and removing threads such as "Do you need a bigger penix?! LOLZ!"

It's a thin line to walk, with gray areas and slippery slopes, but I think it's alright how it is. For me FOHSS is just a place to come fuck around, look at stupid/hilarious/sometimes disturbing pictures.

Don't over moderate, don't under moderate.

[Simas]

This thread serves no point.

Everyone accepts that we the viewers dont own the boards and you guys can run them how you see fit.

But posting a thread asking for feedback with the caveats that its not to be a criticism of the mods is pointless.

We used to have cliques, now we have cronyism.

[Northerner]

Oh come on. I don't think anyone really gives a shit about the rep business here do they? I mean, on more serious boards or even back in the noows days here it was a concern that you might get banned or something but the +/- internets thing is hardly anything people are taking seriously I imagine.

Anyhow. SS is a subforum of a rather interesting place. I like a little moderation even if only because I am amused by the inevitable backlash. Millie seems to have a thick enough skin to ride the edge and that's fine by me but I imagine it would piss anyone off after a while.

Really though? This sub-forum exists for a handful of posts of interest and for occasional /b/ lite amusement. If it were all that there was to FoH, I would have left years ago. If the site as a whole lost it however, I'd miss that too.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by JeydaX

Moderation is obviously necessary, especially on a board such as this. I think you may have gone too far in the "Yahoo Live!" thread, and may think lesser of us than we (loose term here) are. I think it's a bit overboard to say it would have been full of child porn, but I guess I can see how that would go.

But again, moderation is necessary and removing threads such as "Do you need a bigger penix?! LOLZ!"

It's a thin line to walk, with gray areas and slippery slopes, but I think it's alright how it is. For me FOHSS is just a place to come fuck around, look at stupid/hilarious/sometimes disturbing pictures.

Don't over moderate, don't under moderate.

I hear ya in re: Yahoo Live. Saying it would be "full of child porn" is a bit of an overstatement, but had I not stepped in, there would be plenty of material that would be illegal and could theoretically have gotten both this board and possibly individual members in a lot of trouble. All that stuff with Lollipopgirl, for instance. Some of that stuff was illegal, believe it or not. It doesn't always seem that way, but even a screenshot of you guys' asking a 16-year-old to show you her tits over internet chat is illegal -- whether or not she's topless. Or asking her to flash you her underwear, or dance provocatively for you. Things like that. In such cases, I may err on the side of overprotection. But I do that out of legal concern. When it comes to questions of legality, I'm both morally and professionally obligated to act in a protectionist fashion.

Hopefully the Yahoo Live thread is doing nicely right now. I don't know, to be honest, because I haven't read the thread in quite some time. I think it's at a level now where I can trust people on that thread to control themselves.

Originally Posted by Simas

This thread serves no point.

Everyone accepts that we the viewers dont own the boards and you guys can run them how you see fit.

But posting a thread asking for feedback with the caveats that its not to be a criticism of the mods is pointless.

We used to have cliques, now we have cronyism.

You're free to criticize; I just don't want flames. Like I said, there's a difference. In fact, what you just posted would qualify as fair criticism. :P

[brekk]

While I under stand the concerns for this board becoming /b/ i don't think it spills over into the rest of the forum, many of us post in Screenshots but have a different tone and maturity level when we post in the other sections.
While there is some general dessent at the moment, I wouldn't go as far as saying a new clique has formed, we have not yet lowered to the level of "emma watson" being every other post.

I do think people at times forget that this is just a SUB-section of an mmo focussed forum. No matter their personal opinions of how great FoHSS its not the main purpose of this board and is not the most important.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by brekk

I do think people at times forget that this is just a SUB-section of an mmo focussed forum. No matter their personal opinions of how great FoHSS its not the main purpose of this board and is not the most important.

I think you've just said very elegantly what I was trying to stumble around over the course of a few overly wordy paragraphs. But yes, basically, this.

I think what happens is that you have three types of people on these forums: people who come here only for Screenshots, people who come here for Screenshots + other boards, and people who come here only for the other boards. Trying to please all of these people is impossible. You cater too heavily to one group, and you risk alienating the others. On the whole, this always has been and always will remain FOH first and "FOHSS" second. At the same time, I created this thread because I would love to see the fundamental needs of the "FOH" and the "FOHSS" elements in less conflict with one another. That may be a fool's errand. Who knows? But I'd like to give it a shot.

[Locithon]

I don't mind any changes really, as long as we can still post boobs every once in a while.

[Occido]

Originally Posted by RiskyChris

Basically, I just don't like seeing people tossed for stupid reasons.

This is my concern as well. The idiots who do things like "Ban me or STFU!" deserve to get told to hit the bricks but unpopular opinions, heated discussions and even flame wars (with, or without mods involved) should not see long time members banned. I like that people can speak their mind here even if its not what people want to hear and I like that people can do so without fear of getting shit canned. If that changes it would be a real shame.

Alot of people around here (even those with -internets!) add flavor to these boards. Unless they grossly violate site rules or seriously cross the line they should not be banned. At least not forever.

Btw millie, I sent you a PM.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Hydrahead

Rep system kind of tored this board to shit if you ask me. Its good for some lulz but it swings the pendullum in the direction of 4Chan for better or worse.

you complain about things starting to look like 4chan and say "for some lulz" in the same sentence ? hmmmm....

[Sean]

I really don't think that you should ban someone just for picking a fight with you - that's extremely childish and uncalled for. Banning someone for rubbing you the wrong way is a pretty blatant abuse of power. It's something I would have done while I was still a teenager and really unwarranted. If you have a beef with someone then use your own posts to shut up them up - don't go "lalala I can't hear you" and toss them away.

Mass spam, line crossing with child crap, out right breaking rules like that should really be the only bans.