McCain vs. Obama

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by Phelps McManus

Just because he says he is post-racial, doesn't mean he really is. Keep in mind that Obama would be replacing liberal Supreme Court Justices who are eager to retire under a Democratic president. These side issues can give you clues as to who he would pick.

Really? Seriously? Michelle's 12 year old thesis tells you how Obama is going to narrow down those supreme court justices? Hamas announcing his support for Obama tells you how Obama's going to act?

Are any of these side issues more revelent then Obama's law career and how he personally acted during his own law career? How might that experience narrow down who he would select as justices compared to Hamas support?

Now if you were to say "While obama was a professor he often taught class liberally and appointed libral students as helpers and voted liberally and vocally supported liberal judges." Then that would make a GREAT case for how Obama is going to pick his justices.

[Payndar Circusdorf]

Originally Posted by Etoille

and clearly Obama must denounce the group thats offering peace right now in Israel

What group is that?

[Etoille]

Originally Posted by Payndar Circusdorf

What group is that?

Hamas offers conditional peace plan

oh btw, I'm fully expecting you to say oh it was BS or lolwithdraw. Fact remains that the Camp David accords were LESS of a valid offer from Israel to Palestine of peace than this was/is.

[Payndar Circusdorf]

Originally Posted by Etoille

Hamas offers conditional peace plan

Did you read the first sentence?

"Hamas announced Monday that it would accept a Palestinian state on land seized by Israel in the 1967 war but would not recognize Israel."

That's not a peace offer.

[Etoille]

im not going to derail the thread with this. like i said it is a step toward peace which was rejected by israel and the US (who spun it as no offer at all much like you did).

i have zero issue with the hamas endorsement when it comes to obama.

[Arbitrary]

Isn't their peace offer identical to their normal objectives?

Get land back, do not recognize Israel.

[Burf]

Etoille, even though you're a self-proclaimed Israel hater, seriously...you have to know that wasn't much of a peace offer.

[renaissance]

Originally Posted by Burf

Etoille, even though you're a self-proclaimed Jew hater, seriously...you have to know that wasn't much of a peace offer.

Pretty sure I've only ever seen her speak negatively of Israel, not Jews. They are not the same thing, even though certain interests would like you to believe they are.

[Vatoreus]

What are the good reasons for recognizing Israel really? Wasn't the founding of their country completely illegal?

[Burf]

Fine, fine...I changed it to Israel. Although I do remember her speaking quite anti-Jewish-ly about her roommates.

[Payndar Circusdorf]

Originally Posted by Vatoreus

What are the good reasons for recognizing Israel really? Wasn't the founding of their country completely illegal?

Only if UN resolutions are illegal.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Well, the Bush administration likes to ignore them, so why not?

[renaissance]

Originally Posted by Payndar Circusdorf

Only if UN resolutions are illegal.

Illegal was a poor word choice. Perhaps 'incredibly stupid' would fit better.

Also, many nations did deem resolution 181 quite illegal...

[Burf]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

Well, the Bush administration likes to ignore them, so why not?

So did Iraq. (ba-dum-bum!)

[Phelps McManus]

Originally Posted by Sharmai

Why should I trust McCain woud do anything he says? Your argument sucks phelps. "he might not do what he might say he will do therefore I won't vote for for him!" That crap applies to McCain to.

Actually, what he says he will do (Iraq, healthcare) is why I won't vote for him. You asked why his associations matter compared to what he plans to do.

Using Hamas or michelle or mickey mouse to prove what they might do is just as craptastic a way to make a decision to. Hamas might support Obama because he knows america doesn't like Hamas and will then vote for McCain because he likes McCain's plan. Or maybe Hamas really does like Obama. Tinfoilry! How about we just discuss the merits of the actuals plans? What an idea no?

I don't care what Hamas thinks, so it won't affect my decision. On the other hand, the insurance lobbyists supporting Obama does raise a red flag on his health care plan. For the sake of the argument let's say I am staunch social conservative. If McCain tells a church group he will appoint a conservative justice who would support a federal ban for abortion and gay marriage, but Cindy wrote a thesis that belies pro-life beliefs, I would be concerned that he won't follow through. Of course, his moderate and states' rights record would have been my first tipoff.

How about "Obama might not do 'insert x here' because he has a history of not doing x 'here, here, and here'." Or how about in proving how Obama or McCain is going to act when president we use their previous histories? And where previous histories do not exist we use their statements and plans of actions that are given?

Because Obama doesn't have much of a history of doing anything. For Health Care, he is tied to the expansion of KidsCare and FamilyCare which allowed Illinois to stop wasting unclaimed federal dollars (SCHIP) but does nothing to lower costs. It covered more poor people, but didn't make health care more available and less expensive for everyone else. He gets attributed with the Health Care Justice Act but it wasn't enacted until 2007, well after he left the state senate, and only encouraged establishing universal healthcare. I'll have to defer to some of our Illinois residents on how that is working out for them today.

His stance on Iraq is muddled by the fact that most decisions leading up to it were made before he joined the senate. He also has zero military experience so he should be listening to his generals who will all be against a complete withdrawal with 18 months. I fully expect Obama to reneg on that promise, too late for the people who vote for him solely because of his support for a withdrawal.