[VG] Producer's Letter

[Agraza]

This is the product of years of dishonesty by SOE and Sigil. They betrayed their fans. It's not so different from finding out your favorite baseball player was using steroids.

Most older players have several distinct experiences that form their low opinion of the people operating these companies. They've simply mishandled the phenomenon they helped to create from almost its inception. Most of them never learned their lesson. By all accounts its the new faces like Gallenite, who I believe became a senior producer during SoL or PoP, that helped push the game in a new, healthier, direction.

I've been critical of The Vision for as long as I played EQ and was never a fanboi for VG, but I was hoping that the game would be superior to EQ2 and WoW. Even my limited hopes were dashed. I'm not cutting myself in a dark room though, I'm playing WoW (off and on) while waiting for someone to make a game I'd really like.

This really isn't about Brad to me. His drug problem is unfortunate. I'm still upset with his work on EQ, as well as other current and former designers of SOE. I make my point with my money. I don't buy their games.

[spentmotiff]

Originally Posted by Agraza

This is the product of years of dishonesty by SOE and Sigil. They betrayed their fans. It's not so different from finding out your favorite baseball player was using steroids.

See, this right here? Years of dishonesty from SOE? With VG? Really?

[Twobit Whore]

SOE and Sigil.

Yes, it started with EQ, a lot of the Sigil team was associated with EQ then the game and some of them went back to SOE. It's not hard to make the connection.

[Agraza]

Excuse me? What do you find issue with exactly? Do you want examples?

[spentmotiff]

So you are now blaming SOE in part for the misinformation surrounding VG? Because some of the VG team worked at SOE before moving to Sigil? Ooookay.

If that's the stance you're taking, than I'm tapping out of this conversation.

[Agraza]

No, I'm blaming SOE for the misinformation regarding EQ. Companies are not entities. They are collections of people. Those people then went on to Sigil after lying and fucking up at SOE to lie and fuck up at Sigil. I never said SOE was at fault for VG.

[Gnome Eater]

I don't condone the personal hatred towards Brad, but I think he deliberately went out of the way to point out how his game would 'not be like WoW' and to spin his game insanely, so now his crash for a lot of people is satisfying.

That - and internet anonomity. If you act exceedingly pompous people will enjoy watching you fall, expecially if you preach how righteous you are.

[Twobit Whore]

Think of it this way Curt. How do you think people would react if it came to light you did steroids/HGH as much as you have denounced it and the people who have used it? That's basically what has happened here.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Does it truly make people feel good about themselves to observe other people's misery and failure? Does it validate you to gloat over other peoples failings and the ruining of peoples lives/careers?

Of course it does. Which is pretty pathetic with respect to those people.

* * *

We're in bizzaro land now though with respect to VG. People are still going off on the game as she was released one year ago (-ten days or so). It's been under different management since May. And with respect to Brad, by all accounts he wasn't significantly involved after June 2006.

All you fuckers need to get a life.

[Jordan Jax]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Dismissing the obvious Pandora's box I'm opening by posting here I was wondering something.

Does it truly make people feel good about themselves to observe other people's misery and failure? Does it validate you to gloat over other peoples failings and the ruining of peoples lives/careers?

I barely know Brad, barely, but I sure as hell don't feel the slightest bit of happiness knowing his life is in turmoil, his dream and his vision came crashing down and in the process hundreds of people's careers were changed/ruined/screwed up in the process.

If anyone on this board could have legitimate reasons to root against Brad, Sigil, VG or any of it I'd imagine it would be someone like me running a competing company.

I feel the exact opposite of all those things. Listen, Brad has to take account for his part in all this, and I am hoping someday if he hasn't already, he will.

But this is real life shit folks, a persons life is at stake, or was, due to what is thought to be a serious drug addiction, a company was pretty much run into the ground, and there is a large contingent of people here dancing on both of their graves. Over what? A 40 dollar purchase? A bad game? Again, you make your own bed, he bears the burden of everything he impacted, I get that, but I would question the integrity of a team member, after the fact, airing the dirty laundry he did on a forum like this, in the fashion it was done.

I can only speak for me, a personal opinion and observation, but I can't fathom ANY possible scenario ever when I'd consider someone that did something like this to be a potential employee, no matter how talented or passionate they were.

You spend thousands of hours grinding in production of this massive 'thing', saying now that the entire time you knew it was all a train wreck, everyone and their mother was clueless and the company was a chaotic nightmare every second of the day but nowhere in that post did you claim to make your opinions of the goings on and your feelings known to anyone that mattered.

Had the bulk of the people in that company, if they truly felt and knew they were heading down a path of utter disaster, taken a stand, aired the dirty laundry, where would Brad and VG be right now?

I can only speak for myself but if 50% of my dev team stand up at an all hands and proclaim the current project un-salvageable I have to think things as we know it would come to a screeching halt. Hell if 5 people of the dev team say that then I am thinking there is something HORRIFICALLY wrong.

Understand this, anyone that has the slightest insight into who I am knows I am all about openness and honesty, and I am the last person on this planet to tell you anything or offer anyone advice in keeping their mouth shut, but at the end of the day what did that post accomplish?

Make someone who's clearly at a breaking point in their lives feel worse?
Make a group of people who clearly had passion for gaming, got caught in a meat grinder and were 'forced' to churn out something that was far from reaching it's potential feel worse?
Further validate an effort that has already lined up a million or say "I told you it sucked" gamers with more bravado?

I don't think the post told us anything we all didn't already know did it? We all know what VG was when it launched, as gamers anyway, that post, to me anyway, was the first episiode of FOH's version of Jerry Springer.

I got a sick feeling in my stomach after reading the original post, and this is exactly why. Thanks for the post.

The funny thing is all the responses after this post.

"Well, Brad lied to us and he kept pumping up his game on our websites!"

"Brad was pompous and arrogant so he deserves to have thousands of spurned internet geeks who wasted a whole $40 know about and revel in the fact he has a serious drug problem!!"

It makes me sick. But it's not in the least bit surprising, this is the internet after all and anonymity combined with heavy doses of immaturity and nerd rage make for a real ugly combination.

[Jordan Jax]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Think of it this way Curt. How do you think people would react if it came to light you did steroids/HGH as much as you have denounced it and the people who have used it? That's basically what has happened here.

just...wow

[I'm Rich Bitch]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Does it truly make people feel good about themselves to observe other people's misery and failure? Does it validate you to gloat over other peoples failings and the ruining of peoples lives/careers?

I think that is a basic human need. People like to think they are better than other people, especially people who are perceived as being rich and/or famous. I am sure people felt better about themselves when they found out Barry Bonds used steroids or when Michael Vick went to jail.

It is the reason the only news is bad news in the media and one of the reasons for racism. It is just a basic human need.

The VG soap opera is just the Geek version of that.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Think of it this way Curt. How do you think people would react if it came to light you did steroids/HGH as much as you have denounced it and the people who have used it? That's basically what has happened here.

Please don't try to use analogies 2bit. You're not as good at them as you seem to think.

[Twobit Whore]

I'm pretty sure it's an apt analogy. Brad denounced WoW as a 'beer and peanuts' game that would implode within a year. He knew the right way to do it and he was going to do it..

So it wouldn't be too different for someone to say drugs are bad, you shouldn't do them then turn around and actually do them yourself.

People would react quite viciously, do you not agree? Can you imagine the flak Curt would get if he tested positive for steroids after his blogs on it are now infamous? It's not much different than the reaction people have towards Brad after his long-winded spiels about the industry and WoW and Vanguard and the resulting shitpile he released.

[Draegan]

I have to say the analogy worked.