MMOs as an outlet for [future] child predators?

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Sanrith DesCartes

If you are banging someone who is roleplaying at being a 7 year old and you are banging them while fantasizing it is a 7 year old that falls outside the realm of acceptable behavior in modern society. And don't go there with the Orwellian mind police crap. Having thoughts about trying to change the way the government treats it's people is not the same as having thoughts about fucking children.

A lot of people, in this country and elsewhere, also think the same about homosexuality, that it is outside the realm of acceptable behavior, that its morally wrong, and needs to be stamped out wherever, regardless of privacy or free speech. Once you concede to the government the ability to regulate the sex life of consenting adults in private, or speech about such activities, you ultimately do directly open the door for the majority to take away the rights of the minority just because they damn well feel like it, using whatever Orwellian tactics the majority authorizes the government to use.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Rythonn

Why the slippery slope? It is perfectly reasonable to ban certain extreme behavior while letting other stuff slide. And people are not asking they monitor guild chat for this type of behavior but the minute you start recruiting for fellow pedophiles, the shit went too far. I guarantee you if I started a KKK guild blizzard would ban me.

Yes but once you start banning any given behavior, you have to be in the business of monitoring ALL behavior in order to detect it. And there goes any kind of privacy. Would you want to have your char banned because an african-american GameMaster happens to see you said nigger in guild chat 20 minutes before you submitted your ticket on an unrelated issue?

[AndersJ]

Originally Posted by Mist

I've seen a LOT of fucked up shit in every guild chat I've ever been in, in every MMO, including but not limited to sexism, gay bashing and EXTREME racism. Once Blizzard gets into the act of policing private guild chats, you're NOT going to like the outcome. What you're essentially asking for is the removal of ALL privacy and ALL freedom of speech within MMO games, in pursuit of a handful of people playing a kind of make believe that you don't like.

Uh, you have no freedom of speech or right to privacy in regards to what you do in the game. The only right to privacy you should expect from Blizzard is with regards to them handling your personal information. Other than that, yes, you should be held responsible for what you say and do in-game. Guildchat isn't a private channel, it's a comm channel in a game owned and ran by Blizzard. Yes, there are restrictions as to who can use it, but it is by no means a "private" channel.

[Rythonn]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

And who decides what is extreme and what gets to slide?

Blizzard gets to because it is their game?

[AndersJ]

Originally Posted by Rythonn

Blizzard gets to because it is their game?

^ Yup. Remember, Blizzard is a corporation. At some point Corporations act with heavy hands on certain things if there is a possibility at some sort of scandal that can hurt profitability. You think any corporation wants stuff like that going on in their domains?

I sincerely doubt it.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by AndersJ

Uh, you have no freedom of speech or right to privacy in regards to what you do in the game. The only right to privacy you should expect from Blizzard is with regards to them handling your personal information. Other than that, yes, you should be held responsible for what you say and do in-game. Guildchat isn't a private channel, it's a comm channel in a game owned and ran by Blizzard. Yes, there are restrictions as to who can use it, but it is by no means a "private" channel.

But it IS a private channel, under current Blizzard policy. Under their current policy, Blizzard will not ban you for remarks made in guild chat that are otherwise against the ToS. If you call someone a 'stupid nigger' in guild chat and they get offended, that person cannot report you and get you suspended. Go ahead and try it. What many people in this thread are advocating would require a change to that policy, and also that Blizzard would have to actively police all guild chat and other private channels.

[Sanrith DesCartes]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

It's not so much defending their behaviour as much as it is defending their right to engage in such behaviour. I doubt anyone here thinks it is cool or fun or appealing, but that isn't for us to decide. You can dislike it all you want and you can shun those who do like it.. I know I would, but that doesn't make it illegal or something the FBI/authorities should get involved in.



And who decides what is extreme and what gets to slide?

I agree with you 100% on the legality part. I disagree however that it isn't for us to decide. We make up the society that we live in. We are all responsible for policing it for us and for future generations. Think of it this way, how did most of us come to realize pedophilia is wrong. Probably it was taught to us by our parent/parents at a young age along with other basic ideas that go along with being a member of society. That is how we as a society function. We the members work to keep it functional. Forget the legality of the issue. Forget any religious take on the issue (no offense to any of you Catholic priests out there). There is right and there is wrong. I agree that we have a metric fuckton of gray area in between in today's world. Pedophilia and fantasies about it don't fall into that gray area in my opinion (and the vast majority of the members of society at large based on how it reacts to pedophiles).

[Duppin]

Blizzard is in the business of making games, not enforcing morality.

Once you start to get into the latter business, it's pretty tough to get out of.

[Rythonn]

Originally Posted by Mist

But it IS a private channel, under current Blizzard policy. Under their current policy, Blizzard will not ban you for remarks made in guild chat that are otherwise against the ToS. If you call someone a 'stupid nigger' in guild chat and they get offended, that person cannot report you and get you suspended. What many people in this thread are advocating would require a change to that policy.

Where the fuck have you been? People get warnings and suspensions all the time for swearing in guildchat.

[AndersJ]

Originally Posted by Mist

But it IS a private channel, under current Blizzard policy. Under their current policy, Blizzard will not ban you for remakes made in guild chat that are otherwise against the ToS. If you call someone a 'stupid nigger' in guild chat and they get offended, that person cannot report you and get you suspended. What many people in this thread are advocating would require a change to that policy.

I see your point, and yeah, I have no issues if they chose to change their policies on the subject to include certain things. Maybe not go to the point of profanity, but at least on the subject of sexual content.

[AndersJ]

Originally Posted by Duppin

Blizzard is in the business of making games, not enforcing morality.

Once you start to get into the latter business, it's pretty tough to get out of.

Making a game and running an MMORPG are two separate things. Yes, Blizzard used to simply "make games" and let the online stuff fly, but once they delved into that world of constantly-moderated online world (i.e. World of Warcraft) where they kept a slew of GMs and CMs on the ready to enforce the ToS, then they have that responsibility to uphold those Terms.

As it's already been mentioned, sexual content is against ToS.

[Sanrith DesCartes]

Originally Posted by Mist

A lot of people, in this country and elsewhere, also think the same about homosexuality, that it is outside the realm of acceptable behavior, that its morally wrong, and needs to be stamped out wherever, regardless of privacy or free speech. Once you concede to the government the ability to regulate the sex life of consenting adults in private, or speech about such activities, you ultimately do directly open the door for the majority to take away the rights of the minority just because they damn well feel like it, using whatever Orwellian tactics the majority authorizes the government to use.

As I stated this is not about the government or any legal take on the issue. Just about everyone agrees on this point in this thread. The government should not be regulating what people are thinking. We as the people who make up society are the ones who get to regulate that and we have. Society has decided there are some things that are just too vile to be acceptable to us a whole.

As far as the majority being able to dictate things to the minority that is the way things work. At least here in America (assuming you are also an American). We live in a represented Democracy. The majority do get to make the rules. We have checks and balances built into the Constitution but there is also a way for the majority of the population to makes it will known. It is called a Constitutional Amendment. It is a long and arduous process, but it has been done a number of times.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Sanrith DesCartes

I agree with you 100% on the legality part. I disagree however that it isn't for us to decide. We make up the society that we live in. We are all responsible for policing it for us and for future generations. Think of it this way, how did most of us come to realize pedophilia is wrong. Probably it was taught to us by our parent/parents at a young age along with other basic ideas that go along with being a member of society. That is how we as a society function. We the members work to keep it functional. Forget the legality of the issue. Forget any religious take on the issue (no offense to any of you Catholic priests out there). There is right and there is wrong. I agree that we have a metric fuckton of gray area in between in today's world. Pedophilia and fantasies about it don't fall into that gray area in my opinion (and the vast majority of the members of society at large based on how it reacts to pedophiles).

'Vast majority' is meaningless. The US is not a democracy. It is a constitutional republic, and under such a government system, the majority cannot take away the legal rights of the minority, just because they find what they're doing to be offensive.

What YOU find abhorent is these people's virtual activities. What *I* find abhorent is the the very real willingness of people in this thread to sacrifice the rights of others, and themselves, in pursuit of some phantom pedophiles, to satisfy their own perverse persecution fantasies. Shows like 'To Catch a Predator,' while their ends are ultimately just (and fucking hilarious I might add,) the depictions in the shows themselves are essentially just another form of voyeristic pornography.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Sanrith DesCartes

We live in a represented Democracy

Epic fail. Wrong, try again.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Rythonn

Where the fuck have you been? People get warnings and suspensions all the time for swearing in guildchat.

No, they don't. They get suspensions for swearing in public channels, then the automated email just happens to list things they may have said in private channels around the same span of time. Go ahead, try reporting someone for saying something solely in guild chat.