MMOs as an outlet for [future] child predators?

[Twobit Whore]

I bet he crusades FOR them.

[Neph]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Beastiality is illegal and gross, but no one crusades against furries. Won't someone please think of the puppies?

I beg to differ...

Furry fandom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




EDIT: Real puppies aren't the target of furry-ism. Though we should probably prosecute those damn furries who play as puppies under pedophilia laws

[Sanrith DesCartes]

Originally Posted by Mist

Yet the very same types of laws were used to prosecute homosexuality for hundreds of years. Sodomy laws, which have only very recently been struck down, have long since been about criminalizing oral sex between consenting, heterosexual couples; they were instead kept on the books to give the government the power to criminalize homosexuality, and giving the state the legal authority to invade the homes of anyone they 'suspect' of engaging in homosexual activities. We have just now crept out from under these kinds of laws, and we're now going to be bringing back those kinds of laws in pursuit of supposed pedophiles.

I can absolutely garauntee that any laws against these types of activities will be used against consenting adult homosexuals, because there are a good 20% of the population of this country that still does not make a distinction between homosexuality and pedophilia. They're both wrong, they both go against their God, and that's tens of millions of people who think that way, potentially at all levels of government and law enforcement. This country is at any given time only a handful of votes away from slipping into at least temporary fascism, and promoting a culture of defending individual rights, regardless of whether you agree with them or not, is the ONLY defense against such an outcome.

So we need to not fuck with pedophiles who destroy the innocence of children because you think there might be some splash effect on the homosexual community? Your head is well and truly screwed on sideways and it has absolutely nothing to do with what sex your partner is. I don't care at all if you are gay, but the thought track you are on is truly fucked up.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Sanrith DesCartes

So we need to not fuck with pedophiles who destroy the innocence of children because you think there might be some splash effect on the homosexual community?

No, you need to not fuck with 2 consenting adults just because one wants to say "fuck me like a teenage babysitter" in private.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Sanrith DesCartes

So we need to not fuck with pedophiles who destroy the innocence of children because you think there might be some splash effect on the homosexual community? Your head is well and truly screwed on sideways and it has absolutely nothing to do with what sex your partner is. I don't care at all if you are gay, but the thought track you are on is truly fucked up.

No, its your thought track that can't distinguish between REAL pedophiles and people playing make believe. I'd much rather the FBI and it's limited resources occupy itself with prosecuting REAL crimes, people hurting REAL children, than people playing make believe. But give them the authority to police the latter, and that's what they'd do, because frankly its a lot easier and the arrests look just as good to people like you.

[LadyVex]

It is immoral to do anything with children because they are not mature mentally enough to consent, and often times, to understand exactly what is going on or what could happen, will happen etc.

To even portray the event that they are taking advantage of someone younger, is downright morbidly disgusting, and should be policed. As someone else says, right to free speech is going wayyyy farther than it should. It exists, to a point. I don't believe murder or any of that other shit is right, but if we're really going to compare it to a fantasy life, you kill in WoW as in a war; one side is seen as inherently evil, so you fight against them. There is nothing evil about children (Ok, what the fuck was with the kid in pet cemetary, anyways) and it doesn't belong anywhere. There is no fantasy, no outlet, no exceptions for anything involving children. It doesn't belong in WoW, on websites, on anything. Legally, they aren't doing anything wrong. (I guess) Morally, they should burn in hell and we should all be better people by letting these fucks know we don't tolerate this kind of shit. This isn't some choice between consenting adults they are portraying; you aren't playing good cop, bad cop - you are taking the choice away from a kid not even sexually mature enough to understand what the fuck is going on. Yes, these aren't real children, but if it's turning you on, then you my friend are fucked beyond belief.

And come the fuck on, a little more policing of what people say needs to happen. How many more fucking school shootings need to happen that were completely detailed on myspace pages, threatened in schools and facebook, discussed in forums before someone decides it's not even cool to do this shit? When all the school shootings took place I was still in high school, and the very word about bombing the school or killing someone was an instant suspension. This needs to happen here. Or better yet, allow it, collect all the sick fucks and ship em off somewhere to be executed so they can stay the fuck away from my younger relatives and any kids I might have in the future.

[Arbitrary]

Don't give me that, "how many more, won't someone please think of the children" bullshit.

Zero tolerance policies are a cause school violence, not a way to curb it. If someone saying fucked up shit hurts your sensitive ears so much why are you even here?

[Zhakran]

As a complete aside, I often find it funny that people say stuff like "children are not mature enough to be able to give consent and understand the consequences of their actions!!'

That is a completely true statement, but it is also so, so true of millions of stupid, inebriated 18 year olds who make the same decisions and everyone shrugs their shoulders. It's just not consistent. Very few fucking people who engage in sex for the first time do so in a mature and "good decision making" manner.

Some people do, but "maturity" is such an ethereal concept. A lot of it has to do with "smart" and "stupid" as well. Stupid 18 year olds are a lot less likely to make a good decision than a smart 15 year old. Personally I dont think, in general, you *really* grow up until sometime in your mid 20's. Should we have the age of consent be something like 23? 24? Should we have a test you have to take before you can engage in sexual activity legally, which will supposedly proves your maturity? Sounds pretty dumb, I know, but it's more logical than our current "let's pick an age we say it's okay at" system. And it's different for different people. Some folks are a lot more grown up at 14 than others. Some people are 30 and still act like kids. Those arguments are all just so situational and arbitrary.


ON TOPIC:
I don't care what Blizzard does. They should and almost certainly will ban the offenders in this case because of their public advertising, which is just fucked up.

Legally, I would think that unless there are minors involved nothing is going to happen. If minors are involved, than there should be people being prosecuted just like they would be if it happened on any other online medium, WoW is no exception.

I do agree this is just a big publicity stunt mainly, and they did their job well. Look how much we're discussing it!

[torrent495]

I justed wanted to clarify that the U.S. is, in fact, a democracy. It is also a liberal democracy, a representative democracy, and a constitutional republic. These terms are fairly fluid and imprecise in their meaning, but they all describe the U.S. and I think we all basically understand what form of government the U.S. has.

Should we have the age of consent be something like 23? 24? Should we have a test you have to take before you can engage in sexual activity legally, which will supposedly proves your maturity?Sounds pretty dumb, I know, but it's more logical than our current "let's pick an age we say it's okay at" system.

Of course age of consent laws are more logical than not having such a law at all. Personally I think it's completely consistent, because it's limited in intent. The law says that nobody under the age of X can consent to sex with an adult, because they simply do not have the intellectual and emotional capacity to do so. It's not an attempt to protect everyone from sexual abuse or help adults make smart decisions about sex, just protect children. It's not a perfect law, but IMO it's pretty damn good. Maybe .001% of children under the age of 15-16 are mature enough so that having sex with an adult wouldn't be coercive (in our present society and under our present standards about sex)?

[Kaylena]

The post is now deleted over at WoW, but what Aveta said that struck a nerve with me, was:

"I don't care about your kids!"

It was said in a very angry context and she did it repeatedly. She wasn't talking about wanting to ignore them as if they didn't exist either. She was challenged about having some respect for them and her replies were evident that the very thought of having respect for children, angered her immensely.

She also made other telling remarks where she belittled children, poked fun at their puberty, mentality and logic, all often unprovoked.

This attitude may not be disturbing on a person who just doesn't get along with kids, but it is extremely disturbing on a person who fantasizes about having sex with them.

She uses the freedom of speech card and it works on those too narrow minded to see through the manipulation. It doesn't work on those who refuse to buy into this scare tactic and have the guts to hold their ground and have the common sense to know it doesn't belong in WoW.

The bottom line is that this is just sick shit that is testing the tolerance of how far it can go. And that's why she made it public.

[Arbuste]

It's pretty sick, but as long as people just live their fantasies in their bedroom, or even on their private guildchats, it shouldn't warrant any action.
But going public is going too far. Ban. Disband their guild.
Having sex with a seven year old is a crime. Apology of such a crime should be (and maybe is.)

[rangoth]

Originally Posted by LadyVex

And come the fuck on, a little more policing of what people say needs to happen. How many more fucking school shootings need to happen that were completely detailed on myspace pages, threatened in schools and facebook, discussed in forums before someone decides it's not even cool to do this shit? When all the school shootings took place I was still in high school, and the very word about bombing the school or killing someone was an instant suspension. This needs to happen here. Or better yet, allow it, collect all the sick fucks and ship em off somewhere to be executed so they can stay the fuck away from my younger relatives and any kids I might have in the future.

Im digging my own grave by posting in the shaw but alas....

Again, Blizzard has the right to suspend and ban them. Private game, their rules! Much akin to being suspended from school. However, not illegal. Plotting to bomb a school, kill people and such IS A CRIME. Writing about a dream you had where you bombed the school is not. Fine line, but it is the current law as it stands. These people, sick as we may believe they are, are NOT plotting to molest kids, they are not planning field trips to the mall to commit rape. They are just role-playing, albeit awkward, sexual situations. Until they actually plan or have sex with a child, it is not illegal.

I am with Mist 100% on this. And outside the whole context or right or wrong, moral or immoral the bottom line is that until this shit got posted on FoH it was probably going on in game for months if not years in their private guild chat. The only mistake they made was posting in the public forum channel to recruit, if they didn't do that no one would even care.

[Etoille]

Mist youre absolutely right.

Lets make this about the law.
1) WoW would be considered a private forum in a speech lawsuit. Thus fully able to be regulated. And should be.
2) Even if wow wasnt a private forum and was public, this type of speech would be considered inappropriate and or obscene, as outlined by the supreme court unless there were specific safeguards the guild AND blizzard put up.
3) Lets go beyond what you're arguing and look at down the line liability for Blizzard. This type of thing goes on for a while, Bliz knows about it does nothing. Someones child gets raped and or kidnapped. GUARANTEE theres a lawsuit claiming negligence. What must you prove in a negligence suit you ask?
1) Duty - did Blizzard undertake a duty to safeguard children from this type of thing? Arguably in their TOS which states for community safety reasons and other things yes. They put filters in place to shield children from things and moreover went for a teen rating vs mature.
2) Breach - failure to address the problem
3) Actual Cause - the minor and pedophile met in game
4) Proximate Cause (forseeability) - reasonably forseeable that a pedophile roleplaying one in game would try to hook up with one in real life? I hope the lawyers dont let that get to a jury.
5) Damages - ching ching let the cash register ring.

Bliz gets to pay lawyers and lose hundreds of thousands of dollars in child accounts through bad publicity.

Its not smart for Blizzard not to publicly and harshly crack down on these people now. Lest they start being known in the underworlds as a place that shelters pedophiles.

[Etoille]

Addendum:

Business, legal, moral reasons this shit should be stopped now. Id support Blizzard sending their IP's to dateline. You wanna advertise this is what you like to do in your spare time? We'll give you all the face time you want on prime time tv. oh wait you dont really want people to know that? oops our bad we got the idea from you when you decided to use our servers for your sick message.

[Vatoreus]

Originally Posted by Etoille

Mist youre absolutely right.

Lets make this about the law.
1) WoW would be considered a private forum in a speech lawsuit. Thus fully able to be regulated. And should be.
2) Even if wow wasnt a private forum and was public, this type of speech would be considered inappropriate and or obscene, as outlined by the supreme court unless there were specific safeguards the guild AND blizzard put up.
3) Lets go beyond what you're arguing and look at down the line liability for Blizzard. This type of thing goes on for a while, Bliz knows about it does nothing. Someones child gets raped and or kidnapped. GUARANTEE theres a lawsuit claiming negligence. What must you prove in a negligence suit you ask?
1) Duty - did Blizzard undertake a duty to safeguard children from this type of thing? Arguably in their TOS which states for community safety reasons and other things yes. They put filters in place to shield children from things and moreover went for a teen rating vs mature.
2) Breach - failure to address the problem
3) Actual Cause - the minor and pedophile met in game
4) Proximate Cause (forseeability) - reasonably forseeable that a pedophile roleplaying one in game would try to hook up with one in real life? I hope the lawyers dont let that get to a jury.
5) Damages - ching ching let the cash register ring.

Bliz gets to pay lawyers and lose hundreds of thousands of dollars in child accounts through bad publicity.

Its not smart for Blizzard not to publicly and harshly crack down on these people now. Lest they start being known in the underworlds as a place that shelters pedophiles.

Well, ya, if these guys were looking to score with real kids, you'd have a valid point.

Uh oh, they aren't. Shit, back to the drawing board.

(note, they should be banned for bringing it to a public forum and I think it's a fucked up fetish, but if no kids are getting hurt, I could honestly give 2 shits.)