SOE to own VG - Sigil fires employees - Page 80

Noah · 05-19-2007, 11:33 PM

Neric · 05-20-2007, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Exactly. And it's this reason that McQuaid is given far too much credit for his 'success' with Everquest. He didn't create the ultimate game, his oversights allowed the people to create it.

...and then he followed it up with another oversight and fixed these "issues" by nerfing an exciting game into endless boredom...

Sinter1 · 05-20-2007, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neric

...and then he followed it up with another oversight and fixed these "issues" by nerfing an exciting game into endless boredom...

You sure love kicking people when they're down Neric... hope it at least makes you feel better about your own shitty existance.

lumberjack · 05-20-2007, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

AFK leveling with pet on agressive

dont you mean FD grinding by necros?

Reggie · 05-20-2007, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjack

dont you mean FD grinding by necros?

What was wrong with mages? I think they had to be light blues...but certainly heard of kids going to great adventure with their parents while getting crap exp afk.

Neric · 05-20-2007, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinter1

You sure love kicking people when they're down Neric... hope it at least makes you feel better about your own shitty existance.

Remarkable, truely remarkable. You take my comment on the EQ Kunark area to turn it into kicking someone when he is down. Quite interesting that you didn't say the same about the statement I commented on.

How about you go and fuck yourself? That would certainly make you feel better about your shitty existance.

Druixx · 05-20-2007, 07:06 AM

Classic thread derailed and heading for Shitsville. Thanks EQ fags. Go gay up your own thread.

Zehn - Vhex · 05-20-2007, 08:38 AM

What did you expect with VG in the title?

But yeah, seconded on the "The only fun part of EQ was exploiting the shit out of it." EQ as it was intended to be played was boring as shit.

I think the only thing that kept me from quitting at least a dozen times was the absurd amount of entertainment that was Gravity Flux and being able to target yourself with it. "I wonder what's up there...LET'S FIND OUT!"

Fammaden · 05-20-2007, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

What did you expect with VG in the title?

But yeah, seconded on the "The only fun part of EQ was exploiting the shit out of it." EQ as it was intended to be played was boring as shit.

I think the only thing that kept me from quitting at least a dozen times was the absurd amount of entertainment that was Gravity Flux and being able to target yourself with it. "I wonder what's up there...LET'S FIND OUT!"

I never really got the impression that g-fluxing yourself was particularly unintended. They never removed that did they? Maybe it was too hard to code out again for some reason. Being able to cast on yourself was part of EQ's intangible charm that did in fact exist outside of simply the oddity of emergent behaviors. Quad kiting was unintended but was being able to snare and nuke yourself also a mistake? Those are the kinds of little "freedoms" that I think most players reminisce about more than the player driven stretching of the game mechanics. Not every class could take advantage of that stuff in the first place by and large. Which is why most of the storytelling in this thread is from the druid/wiz/mage/nec perspective. Everyone regardless of class, however, can relate to logging in hitting A and getting stomped by your class trainer. And consequently being able to come back 50 levels later and stomp him if you want. Being able to climb or levitate to the top of tall ass shit and jump off it for the fuck of it. It might be a heavy case of rose colored glasses, but it just seemed like EQ had a lot more open endedness to it by design as well as due to lack of foresight in design.

Bloodfrost · 05-20-2007, 09:18 AM

I remember the joy of lev + sow. I used to find whatever high point I could and just afk up there. Highest point in PoK and Top of Kaladim come to mind. Good times.

Laerazi · 05-20-2007, 09:18 AM

Bard charming people in the Freeport Arena and having them attack guards = win. "WTF I lost experience you idiot"

I'm Rich Bitch · 05-20-2007, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodfrost

I remember the joy of lev + sow. I used to find whatever high point I could and just afk up there. Highest point in PoK and Top of Kaladim come to mind. Good times.

That was very cool. I wonder if that was the design motivation behind the design of the EQ2 Fae "glide" functionality.

Laerazi · 05-20-2007, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm Rich Bitch

That was very cool. I wonder if that was the design motivation behind the design of the EQ2 Fae "glide" functionality.

Yeah I got to a few places like that; on top of the PoK library was one of the big ones, but also got onto the Firiona Vie statue (all the way up to the head). Also, with bard speed and lev, you could float inside the Karnor's Castle walls (which had nothing in them, and no way out).

Zehn - Vhex · 05-20-2007, 09:31 AM

They pretty much nerfed everything you just mentioned, even Gflux eventually. They even tried to nerf kiting once but it caused a mess of new bugs that for years they still hadn't managed to fix (low-health mobs warping back to spawn at full health and still agro, etc...).

I imagine it was much easier to just ban people who were caught sploiting then it was to actually fix the root of the problem. Why pay a programmer 20~50 bucks an hour to fix shit when you can pay a CS rep 7.50 an hour for roughly the same net effect?

Which was pretty much EQ's method from the start. Just ignore the shit and hope it goes away. Hi2u Alchemy/Dual-wielding. And then even when they do get around to fixing shit, it was always 50/50 whether they would decide "Well...it's working as intended I guess" and try to balance it (kiting/ae groups/FD/etc...) or just nerf the shit out of it or make it useless in the future (pacify/FD killing/fear kiting).

Fammaden · 05-20-2007, 09:32 AM

Incidentally, this is intrinsically relevant to VG, and not even really that much of a derail as far as threads this large go. If I have those rose colored glasses, and many others have posted here and elsewhere to the same effect, then there is in fact a subset of people who might welcome back that sort of world design. The fact is that many of these things have been deliberately designed out of modern MMO's.

Sigil knew this, we told them, and they tried to bank on it. Remember when they launched the new "Set Yourself Free" motto? I don't even think most sane people even really respect the finer points of the vision™ as much as they were willing to put up with it if the game world turned out to bring back that feeling of wide open freedom. EQ had that near sandbox aspect while still burying you in static content. Any game that could deliver something similar right now that was reasonably polished and complete could garner a niche crowd without question. Many people would probably put up with steep grinds and harsh penalties again, not because they like those things but as long as they could do them in a world that drew players in and let them loose like old Norrath did.

05-19-2007, 11:33 PM	#1186 (permalink)
Noah Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 171 +0 Internets	heh Episode 254: Quality Assurance

05-20-2007, 09:18 AM	#1195 (permalink)
Bloodfrost Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Home Posts: 214 +3 Internets	I remember the joy of lev + sow. I used to find whatever high point I could and just afk up there. Highest point in PoK and Top of Kaladim come to mind. Good times. __________________ Eve - Maximo Mustachio - Gallente - 5mil+ SP - T1 Dominix FTW "It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquires shakes, The shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion."

05-20-2007, 09:32 AM	#1200 (permalink)
Fammaden Treats objects like women. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Posts: 3,203 +30 Internets	Incidentally, this is intrinsically relevant to VG, and not even really that much of a derail as far as threads this large go. If I have those rose colored glasses, and many others have posted here and elsewhere to the same effect, then there is in fact a subset of people who might welcome back that sort of world design. The fact is that many of these things have been deliberately designed out of modern MMO's. Sigil knew this, we told them, and they tried to bank on it. Remember when they launched the new "Set Yourself Free" motto? I don't even think most sane people even really respect the finer points of the vision™ as much as they were willing to put up with it if the game world turned out to bring back that feeling of wide open freedom. EQ had that near sandbox aspect while still burying you in static content. Any game that could deliver something similar right now that was reasonably polished and complete could garner a niche crowd without question. Many people would probably put up with steep grinds and harsh penalties again, not because they like those things but as long as they could do them in a world that drew players in and let them loose like old Norrath did. __________________ Fammaden - Wizard - Saryrn (Retired) WoW: Shaman/Mage/Hunter

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05-20-2007, 07:06 AM	#1192 (permalink)
Druixx Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 295	Classic thread derailed and heading for Shitsville. Thanks EQ fags. Go gay up your own thread.

05-20-2007, 08:38 AM	#1193 (permalink)
Zehn - Vhex Lord of the Dance Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 8,794 +166 Internets	What did you expect with VG in the title? But yeah, seconded on the "The only fun part of EQ was exploiting the shit out of it." EQ as it was intended to be played was boring as shit. I think the only thing that kept me from quitting at least a dozen times was the absurd amount of entertainment that was Gravity Flux and being able to target yourself with it. "I wonder what's up there...LET'S FIND OUT!"

05-20-2007, 09:18 AM	#1196 (permalink)
Laerazi Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 1,288 -2 Internets	Bard charming people in the Freeport Arena and having them attack guards = win. "WTF I lost experience you idiot"

05-20-2007, 09:31 AM	#1199 (permalink)
Zehn - Vhex Lord of the Dance Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 8,794 +166 Internets	They pretty much nerfed everything you just mentioned, even Gflux eventually. They even tried to nerf kiting once but it caused a mess of new bugs that for years they still hadn't managed to fix (low-health mobs warping back to spawn at full health and still agro, etc...). I imagine it was much easier to just ban people who were caught sploiting then it was to actually fix the root of the problem. Why pay a programmer 20~50 bucks an hour to fix shit when you can pay a CS rep 7.50 an hour for roughly the same net effect? Which was pretty much EQ's method from the start. Just ignore the shit and hope it goes away. Hi2u Alchemy/Dual-wielding. And then even when they do get around to fixing shit, it was always 50/50 whether they would decide "Well...it's working as intended I guess" and try to balance it (kiting/ae groups/FD/etc...) or just nerf the shit out of it or make it useless in the future (pacify/FD killing/fear kiting).