SOE to own VG - Sigil fires employees

[chaos]

What's the deal with people enjoying slow XP gain anyway? Isn't leveling just a method of teaching you to play the class so you can function at max level with some degree of authority and experience? It always seemed to me that max level should be where you get into the big leagues, and everything before that should be a giant training course.

[Maxxius]

Originally Posted by Wombat

. . . .
2) There is no evidence that Brad personally weaseled his way out of the firing. First off, as already covered, he was only extremely rarely at the office - who even said he was in the state at the time. Second, who even said he had any time to get there, even if he was informed of it - Sigil could have signed the paperwork with Sony and then immediately fired everyone. . . ..

Oh please, Brad was feckless, there is no way around that. He had his chance to at least go out with some semblance of class by at least being man enough to talk to his employees. Instead he chose to act as a sniveling little coward and hide while others did the task.

Creating a company is never a guarantee for success. But when the death knell is there and your company comes to the end of its life, at least have some dignity an tell your workers thank you for their devotion, we tried, sorry it didn't work out, will be happy to give whatever references they need for future employment, etc., etc.. Don't do a vanishing act, like he did. There is absolutely NO excuse for that.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by chaos

What's the deal with people enjoying slow XP gain anyway? Isn't leveling just a method of teaching you to play the class so you can function at max level with some degree of authority and experience? It always seemed to me that max level should be where you get into the big leagues, and everything before that should be a giant training course.

VG isnt really slow leveling 1-43 or so anyways. After that, the quests are mostly dungeon runs. They gotta just put more damn quests for the 44plus crowd seriously. PoA was a pretty fun quest line, i enjoyed it. Zombie outpost FTW.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

I am almost sure of it, that they told him, just stay the fuck home. Lets just do this quick and fast. He was on FOH and on SV lastnight lurking. I am sure SOE told him, they would pay him all he has to do was Shut up and let all this shit blow over.

Hell, Blizzard put the muzzle on Tigole and Furor from here, i am sure SoE is doing the same with Brad atm.

Would be unsurprised if this was the case. But who knows.

[Gnome Eater]

Originally Posted by EmiliaEQ

- Zero PvP -> No PewPewPew balance issues

Most people really really like PvP, if it is meaningless and doesn't interfere with their farming. I am in the distinct minority that likes meaningful PvP, but the only game with meaningful PvP atm is set in space and has a gameplay I do not enjoy.

- Promoting Grouping -> Done with the "Dot" system
- Holy Trinity -> Done with 3 Tanks, 4 Healers, 4-5 CC Classes

No, I want to solo, I do not want to group with people I don't know ever, and I want the option to solo efficiently to the max level, and to have abilities to non-trivial advance my character when not grouped. Every MMORPG that doesn't caster heavily to a solo-game play is doomed.

Also, I am 100% willing to be that judging by your idea of holy trinity you never ever played a healer in either EQ or Vanguard. Am I right?

- Huge Non Instanced Dungeons -> Trengal/Rahz Inkur
- Big World -> Ports anyone ?

I like those, I only like big worlds if every inch of the world is polished, which normally isn't realistic, so I tend to prefer smaller more polished worlds, if huge perfectly polished worlds was available, I'd rake that of course.

- Very Slow XP -> That did not feel like a grind
- CR -> Where the fuck are the necro/SK SC for "low xp penalty" ?
- 2 Interacting "Jobs" -> Crafters & Adventurers

Those are all retarded. I hate tradeskills, and I should never ever have to level them up in an MMORPG.

- Community -> there was a hint of something

Vanguard had by far the worst community of every MMORPG, because it was centered around the cult of Brad, and because they were vocally demanding absolutely sadistic gameplay measures that Brad and indepedent reviewers both believe drove players away from the game.

They had to shut down the fucking mainboards because they were worried that giving an echo chamber to the whining would drive even more people away from the game.

And above all the "shivers" EQ1 brought :
- Gating Mobs
- Player Fright : Lower Seb ? are you nuts ! we dont have the lvl

I loved Seb, so I will shed a nostalgic tear in its memory. My best times in Seb though were when the zone was empty, and you could clear the entire place alone, or when you could AoE the entire place without having to fight for the right to pull one froglock.

- RvR : Want phat lewts ? better get your A Game (reasonable CRs)

Fuck you. I want difficult encounters, not encounters that are difficult because the downtime between attempts is fucking infinite.

I played Eq for 6 years, enjoyed my time playing it, but looking back, so many of the features I put up with I only put up with because it was my first MMORPG and I never knew better. EQ was amazing in spite of retarded design choices that later got scrapped instantly, not because of them.

[Fizil]

I'd really love to read a Postmortem of Vanguard by the lead developers. Would be interesting to hear more details about the production problems, what went right and wrong.

And before any VG fans flame me, I am refering to a Game Developer Magazine article that many developers write after their game has been completed, detailing what went right and wrong during development. It has nothing to do with whether the game was successful on the market or not.

[Tudana]

Originally Posted by Stosh

Lastly, anybody can be magnanimous and a great guy when they are in a successful situation. How a person acts and behaves when things are going badly is a more accurate indication of their character. Not being present, as the CEO and founder, when the employees of your company are being dismissed speaks volumes to me. That's not my definition of a good guy I'd like to have a beer with.

Isn`t it possible that in 2006 when sigil left MS and brought SOE in, the purchase actually took place then and in this transaction (an was kept undisclosed to all) Brad was removed from the Sigil office? in the f13 interview he had not he hasnt been around for 8 months or more...apparently no explaination given to anyone.

I guess my question is, (becuase I honestly dont know) would something like a restraining order for the previous CEO/Owner be part of a buy out/take over like this was? - which means Brad couldnt have been there or allowed on the premisses even if he wanted to be?

Surely he is not that heartless.

[Skurd]

Originally Posted by Tudana

I guess my question is, (because I honestly don't know) would something like a restraining order for the previous CEO/Owner be part of a buy out/take over like this was? - which means Brad couldn't have been there or allowed on the premises even if he wanted to ?

As much as I hate to agree, I have to say this does sound like a plausible happening.
Seeing Brad's level of involvement in the whole thing (especially forum wise, he kept on being quite the active poster), I see it as somewhat surprising that he would abandon the ship, even if he saw the doomsday coming.

This would of course imply that SoE had a grudge against Brad or saw through his "PR disguise", which in turn doesn't sound too far fetched.

[Duhulk]

Surely he is not that heartless.

My guess would be more thoughtless than heartless.

Had kind of a "head in the clouds" vibe.
But then, don't most "idea guys"?

[Maxxius]

Sigil is a separate company from SOE. The arrangement with SOE was a bail out, not a buy out. SOE would be absolutely foolish to do a straight buyout of Sigil since it would assume it's liabilities, and who the heck would want that. The only asset Sigil owned at the moment was VG, which is what SOE bought. I suspect there were minimum subscription rates as milestones for certain commitments. I am guessing that those milestones were not met, hence insufficient money was flowing to Sigil to maintain it's payroll. At this point Sigil was almost all payroll and VG subscriptions were it's only source of revenue generation. The well was drying up, SOE's financial commitment to Sigil was probably ending, hence Sigil was going belly up. These are decisions your CEO is involved with, which Brad is. I am sure SOE said they would pick up a good portion of his terminated employees, which they really were under no obligation to do. Under no scenario is Brad excused from performing hi CEO duties to Sigil, hence it is his responsibility and his alone to have taken the task of terminating baiscally his entire work force.

[Frax]

Originally Posted by Eomer

From reading that F13 article on how little oversight there was from MS and Sony, it's kind of hilarious to look back now on Aradune bragging about how much creative freedom their publishing deals gave them. Turns out that freedom most likely sunk the game, or let the train runaway for a lot longer than it should have.



I want to be very clear: I am not attempting to piss on anyone's grave here, and I know that this is probably a very touchy subject. But I wondered from the day it was announced whether having Keith Parkinson as the Art Director was a good idea or not. Keep in mind that I personally have difficulty drawing stick figures, let alone dragons. And I've never once used photoshop, let alone Maya or any other rendering program. But it's one thing to have him on-board to do concept art and give direction for the game, but I really have to question whether he was qualified or not to be in charge of the game's entire art creation process (if he indeed was, I don't know). The guy may be an amazing fantasy artist, but did he have a firm grasp on art creation for a video game? Given how poorly the game looks in a lot of respects, outside of the obvious technical/performance issues, it's a shame that it ends up as his legacy.

It's certainly not like Vanguard was the only thing he did, and whatever failings vanguard had would be pretty shitty a thing to dump on him.

[Duhulk]

As far as I can tell Keith worked for Sigil primarily as a concept artist.

I doubt he had anything to do with the technical aspects of their art pipeline aside from maybe looking at models and offering feedback.

[Elidroth Renato]

I'll only say this once and won't comment on it again.

I understand why Brad wasn't there to do this. I've talked to him about it a couple times before the layoffs, and regardless of what's been said, this was NOT, I repeat, NOT a money-grab for him. He took this all very seriously, and very personally, and out of everyone, it is entirely possible that he is taking this the hardest emotionally.

Brad is my friend still. I hold no ill will towards him, or really anyone at Sigil for that matter. It doesn't mean yesterday didn't hurt, because it did. But it's business, and sometimes business doesn't go how you want it to. If he called me today and said "Hey.. I'm starting something new and want you to be a part of it." I'd likely jump on board.

Some of you act like Brad and Sigil killed your family and set fire to your dog. In reality, you're only out some time, and a little bit of money. In the grand scheme, you're out next to nothing. So let it go. Move on. I'm trying to do that myself, and I lost my job yesterday.

[Dammerung]

I understand why Brad wasn't there to do this.

Because he's a big fat pussy who can't look his employees in the eye and take responsibility for their losing their jobs.

[kcxiv]

i actually liked the in game community in VG. The people i have grouped with in game have all been pretty good. I never once went into a horrible group. People in game are pretty damn friendly. People always help one another in OOC, they dont usually do not talk shit because someone is a newb and what not. I still enjoy that part of the community.