SOE to own VG - Sigil fires employees

[Reggie]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

There is nothing wrong with this forum. It has not gone down hill

Sounds like some information minister from somewhere...

Yes the board has gotten more nerdy though. Reading what dorky kids in their 20's think is edgy, cool, and intelligent certainly pushes the readability down a few notches.

I guess its all relative though, RPG genre and all.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by ZProtoss

There was another lesson reinforced by the entire fiasco that was Vanguard. A shitty beta will equate into a shitty game. There is no magical button to be pushed that "fixes everything" at release. So if you still have massive holes in your beta and you're only 2 months out from release, then you may as well kiss your game goodbye.

As much shit as Blizzard gets with their reputation of constantly delaying and pushing back the release date of games, it's certainly a lot better than the alternative you see from other companies.


So please, remember this lesson when 3 years from now the board is hyped up about some MMO, it has a terrible beta, and you have the next generation of fanboys for that game claiming "ITS OK ITS ONLY BETA!". Remember Vanguard, and remind them that it's not okay.

Eh? No one on this board wanted it to go out when it did. Those of us who liked the game liked what they saw in beta but knew it was beta (limited content, bugs, calss imbalances). We were all WTF when they annouced the open in Jan because we all agreed the game needed a minimum of three and more like six months of development and that open beta was way to soon. Go read the threads.

[Mad Jacq]

Originally Posted by RunningDog

Who is going to give him $30 million to develop another game after what he (supposedly) did to Microsoft?

No one. He will never have complete control on a project again. You heard it here first. Brad is an idea man, a Vision (TM) man, not a business man. This was the multi-million dollar learning experience.

Kind of reminds me of myself just out of college. Got a job in management, got promoted up, up, up, and then got fired when they found out I was an incompetent manager (to this date, the only job I ever got fired from). I can admit that to myself today, but couldn't then.

I am a great employee, just a horrible manager.

Brad has some great ideas, but ideas and running a business are two different animals. Business people know how to stay on budget, know the limitations of the product, etc. They make trade offs. "Idea" people need oversight by these realists.

[Zorlac]

Originally Posted by Wizerud

Come on guys, anyone who thinks Brad wanted all this shit to go down as if part of some evil manipulative plot is retarded.
.

Paraphrasing Clarke's 3d law ...

Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

Or Napoleon ...

Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

[Twobit Whore]

So going by the names dropped in that interview, the higher-ups who have been in control for a while now, coupled with Nino's scathing remarks about who is truly responsible, it becomes very clear who he is talking about. Even more clear is that the future of Vanguard isn't guaranteed to be better since the only thing that seems to have changed is who signs the paychecks and the number of checks they will be signing.

[Believe]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

So going by the names dropped in that interview, the higher-ups who have been in control for a while now, coupled with Nino's scathing remarks about who is truly responsible, it becomes very clear who he is talking about. Even more clear is that the future of Vanguard isn't guaranteed to be better since the only thing that seems to have changed is who signs the paychecks and the number of checks they will be signing.

But, it also sounds like the game was set-up for failure long before these new guys were even in charge. Very bad decisions from the get-go.

[chaos]

Originally Posted by Kaosu

But the best thing he could do now is redeem himself and create something actually worth a shit.
As a designer, developer, or anything else.

And so what? Nerds are mad it him. Big deal. If he lays low and creates another project under a stealth guise and releases it in good form (along with it being a good product) people WILL magically forget about Vanguard.

A lot of people are two-faced that way. (Not saying all)

I don't doubt Brad is a nice guy and I'd enjoy having a beer with him and talking about gaming.

However, it isn't the nerds he pissed off. Honestly, I think you'd find most people in this community to be pretty forgiving. He pissed off the money guys. He fucked up. His name is all over VG, and he wanted it that way, at this point I'll bet he never gets funding for anything like this ever again.

At this point, creating soemthing new is the WORST thing he can do. Until VG is at least moderately tolerable, it's still got his name all over it. He's already got to overcome all the bad press from VG if by some miracle he cons someone into funding a future project, but if VG isn't even fixed by that point? Forget about it.

[Mkopec1]

Originally Posted by Believe

But, it also sounds like the game was set-up for failure long before these new guys were even in charge. Very bad decisions from the get-go.

While I agree with you, from the interview he says at least Bradley made some decisions and stuck with them, instead of total lack of decision making like the current team has.

Bottomn line? Brad screwed the pooch, and the current management just continued to screw it by running a train on it.

Sad part is that the current management is still in place. At least if no progress is made now,im sure Smed will step in and smack some pee-pees.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Miele

With all the info coming out for VG now, including the one I just read about submitting small useless demos to Microsoft, which if true would be quite disgusting, .

The useless demo thing doesn't bother me at all -- that is par for the course--really all you do is show off your technology -- see we can make people walk around in a dark room with light, etc. The scripting language (so that's what happened to EAS) and comments about the management that was in charge do bother me.

[rinthea]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

So going by the names dropped in that interview, the higher-ups who have been in control for a while now, coupled with Nino's scathing remarks about who is truly responsible, it becomes very clear who he is talking about. Even more clear is that the future of Vanguard isn't guaranteed to be better since the only thing that seems to have changed is who signs the paychecks and the number of checks they will be signing.

Yep, I completely agree. The current bunch of Dave Gilbertson, Bill Fisher, and Darrin McPherson shouldnt escape criticism.
As to why SOE are letting them continue to call the shots? Surely this is temporary. They can use their knowledge of the current game for a few months as the make the transition, then put some more capable people in these positions. I'd be surprised if they still hold these positions in 6 months.

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by Mad Jacq

Brad has some great ideas, but ideas and running a business are two different animals. Business people know how to stay on budget, know the limitations of the product, etc. They make trade offs. "Idea" people need oversight by these realists.

Great ideas? Such as? I've never heard him come up with anything original. Do you really think ideas such as flying cities, caravans and non-violent advancement haven't been proposed before? Please, Raph Koster came up with most of this stuff a decade back. Anyhow, ideas are usually a dime a dozen, until someone manages to come up with an original one, which is quite rare.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Itzena

Maybe Brad can get around to playing WoW in the copious free time he has nowadays, and pick up a few pointers for the next catastrophe he'll try to build.

I should have mentioned this in things that bothered me about the f13 interview.

Every game designer--strike that everyone at an MMO company (particularly a fantasy MMO company) should be familiar with WoW. Just as they should be familiar with EQ and yeah probably VG too.

[Gorthor]

Originally Posted by rinthea

Yep, I completely agree. The current bunch of Dave Gilbertson, Bill Fisher, and Darrin McPherson shouldnt escape criticism.
As to why SOE are letting them continue to call the shots? Surely this is temporary. They can use their knowledge of the current game for a few months as the make the transition, then put some more capable people in these positions. I'd be surprised if they still hold these positions in 6 months.

Fixing Vanguard isn't the dream of people actually capable doing it and further SOE hasn't the money to buy such brilliant magicians. They want to turn in into something profitable not a WoW-killer, so keeping the staff makes sense in the short term. If V has 90k subs right now, they just have to turn in into a money making 90k subs game.

Quit the mindset that V will become a "good" game in SOEs hands with hundreds of thousands of players. That train passed. It's just another MO, PS or SWG now.

[Zerai]

All MMO developers should have people who are familiar with all major mmos.

Like Defensive target from Vanguard
UI/polish from WoW
EQ freedom


..CoH Travel powers...

[Zarcath]

Originally Posted by tad10

I should have mentioned this in things that bothered me about the f13 interview.

Every game designer--strike that everyone at an MMO company (particularly a fantasy MMO company) should be familiar with WoW. Just as they should be familiar with EQ and yeah probably VG too.

Yeah, you'd think that, but I worked with some GM's who's highest level character was in their 30's. So...yeah.