SOE to own VG - Sigil fires employees

[Gnome Eater]

Originally Posted by EmiliaEQ

This is where you are wrong.
Just as there are people IRL that can spend 1M$ for a Ferrari/Rolls...
There are people that look foward to a "Challenging" game.
2 words : NICHE MARKET

I'll pay 30$/M for "EQ_Reborn" and trust me there is a market of 25+ that
wants something different from the "GARDENING PvP PEWPEW BNetKID" you see in WoW.

Neverwinter Nights / Pen&Paper / PvErs they are all here.

VG failed not because there wasnt a market, but because it was shit :
- Huge world not travel
- 10Step Quests
- CTD/Bugs
- Adventurers can not Disenchant
- Crafted Robe = same number of mats as crafted Bracers (with 3x the stats)
- High End PC

Etc etc etc

I am extremly happy people like you are completely ignored as a potential market, and Vanguard completely tanked. The amount of fans that request masochistic features so they can feel that their MMORPG experience amounts to something is mind-boggling.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Gnome Eater

I am extremly happy people like you are completely ignored as a potential market, and Vanguard completely tanked. The amount of fans that request masochistic features so they can feel that their MMORPG experience amounts to something is mind-boggling.

Basically it's all about how much pain you are willing to endure in order to get your reward and what the reward really means to you. If the reward is small to non-existing, people don't want to suffer a lot for it and that's why Vanguard failed. Nobody wants to go through this grindfest to the very end in order to find a letter that says "You won! Thanks for playing.".

[Mithrull]

Originally Posted by kcxiv

The Director of Global Community Relations for Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) released a statement with this key heads up:

“1. While they wont remove the death penalty completely, I expect it to be liberalized. I wouldn't be surprised to see changes made along the lines of what has been previously floated on the test server. I expect the death penalty with include either losing your gear or a (mild) xp loss but not both.

2. Crafting will be streamlined and crafting xp will be increased. The streamlining might take the form of "one click" construction for recipees that are so low that you'd be assured of an "A" if you went through the whole process. The xp might be increased by allowing xp for non-work order objects. If leveling crafting becomes very quick they may also reduce the effectiveness of the produced objects.

3. As a way of improving performance and streamlining the engine we will see some forms of instancing. This will be done to reduce the number of textures that need to be loaded at a fiven time. I'm sure they will try to make the the instanced areas subtle by making them parts of the world that are really only accessible from one location -- like dungeons.

4. They will try to take the strain off the chunk servers by changing the topography so that chunks are only accessable through limited choke points. This will make it easier to pre-load chunk information and reduce the chunk lag.

5. They will formally end the affiliate site program. Before the end of the week, they will open an official site to help manage the flow of information about the changes. they will continue to maintain relationships with the fan sites for promotional reasons.

6. You will stop hearing projections of ship to ship combat and RTS-like village building from Brad McQuaid or anyone at Sony. The previews that you hear will be more restrained and plausible -- like the introduction of raids.

No one from SOE said any such thing unless Danbala at TTH forums and Mr. Crosby are one and the same:

Sony: "Change is coming to Vanguard" - TenTonHammer Forums

[Kaylena]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

Lets be real here. These are game companies were taking about here. They are not there to steal your money or do you wrong in some way. And although they are there to make money, I dont see some big grand conspiracy theories to fuck people over. We dont need people like him, at least I dont. I feel Im pretty informed as a gamer.

Not to be a smartass, but what do you make of the snippet Itz pulled out then? Where a Sigil employee informs the public of this:

Ex-Sigil: They set monthly milestones. They wanted a succesful MMOG. They had so many false starts with other things that they just wanted a profitable game.

Do you think it's a possibility that he knew it wasn't ready, but was determined to hype it for profit anyway?

[Gorthor]

Originally Posted by Kaylena

Do you think it's a possibility that he knew it wasn't ready, but was determined to hype it for profit anyway?

Looks to me that they couldn't pull the plug anymore, they were too commited. So it's either throw it away or let it sparkle above the rust.

[Noc]

For the lack of scripting and dev tools the games came out pretty decent for what they had to work with.

[Kaosu]

It doesn't matter who it is: Most people will talk out of their ass and yet do something completely different in regards to what they say on the internet. Yet, its hard to get under what context they are arguing about.

I guess the best way to sum up a lot of people on the internet is this: Contradictory by their actions in regards to their words, but not quite strong enough to warrant hypocritical status.

---------------
To put it simply.
Of course he (Brad) is at fault. But not entirely. Blame yourselves for hyping yourself up. Blame management. Blame employees for not doing certain checks and balances. But blaming Brad entirely for it would be too much credit to his name.

But heed my words, if Brad ever comes back and makes a good MMO, you'll see the opposite of today or yesterday.

Sometimes the limited mask of anonymity that the internet provides shows some of the ugliest and most pitiful sides of human nature that anyone will ever see.

I'm really tired of bandwagoning fucks jumping off the U.S.S Hype (viva la titanic) and just pretending like they never boarded the ship to begin with.

[Larion]

Originally Posted by Kaosu

It doesn't matter who it is: Most people will talk out of their ass and yet do something completely different in regards to what they say on the internet. Yet, its hard to get under what context they are arguing about.

I guess the best way to sum up a lot of people on the internet is this: Contradictory by their actions in regards to their words, but not quite strong enough to warrant hypocritical status.

---------------
To put it simply.
Of course he (Brad) is at fault. But not entirely. Blame yourselves for hyping yourself up. Blame management. Blame employees for not doing certain checks and balances. But blaming Brad entirely for it would be too much credit to his name.

But heed my words, if Brad ever comes back and makes a good MMO, you'll see the opposite of today or yesterday.

Sometimes the limited mask of anonymity that the internet provides shows some of the ugliest and most pitiful sides of human nature that anyone will ever see.

I'm really tired of bandwagoning fucks jumping off the U.S.S Hype (viva la titanic) and just pretending like they never boarded the ship to begin with.

I think you can be pretty sure that he WONT EVER be in charge for a mmorpg EVER AGAIN. And if he is noone will make that public willingly, because they would be ripped apart by all the nerd rage =p

[Kaosu]

But the best thing he could do now is redeem himself and create something actually worth a shit.
As a designer, developer, or anything else.

And so what? Nerds are mad it him. Big deal. If he lays low and creates another project under a stealth guise and releases it in good form (along with it being a good product) people WILL magically forget about Vanguard.

A lot of people are two-faced that way. (Not saying all)

[Hachima]

Originally Posted by Duppin

As awesome as it is to be able to chat with Curt Schilling on a message board, I wouldn't qualify any of what has happened in that thread, at least as far as discussion of his project goes, as being interesting back and forth. It's basically the same marketing fluff that people screamed at Brad about. I mean, we know what at this point? That he's churning out yet another fantasy game, and some of the people he's got working on the game. That's it.

And Furor and Tigole were largely muzzled here because of what this place had already turned into, a haven for people to try to "count coup" on developers who had to be accountable for what they said, while they themselves did not.

From a public relations/marketing standpoint, this place turned from a nice little backchannel to access hardcore gamers in the market, to an enormous fucking landmine.

Is Brad somewhat culpable for that, and very culpable for Vanguard's failures? Absolutely. He never should've given people like Utnayan, Neric, Hiram Key, etc, the benefit of the doubt and attempted to have discussions with them based on the assumption that productive discussion was what they were interested in.

But when the next dev uses this place to just spit out press releases ad nauseam, you can just check this thread for an easy reference of who you can thank.

You are wrong. The reason they stopped posting here is because people that don't have access to these boards would always throw a fit when a dev did post here instead of the official forums.

[Cad]

It honestly seems like from reading the interview and Vanguard history, that he bought into the EQ reminiscing that some of you are so fond of, and thought if he created a game in that vein then it would be as big a hit as EQ was.

[pemulis]

and then delivered a product to ex-EQers that did not include the raiding to which they were accustomed (not to mention, it ran like crap on machines that happily ran any other competitor's games)

you can't expect people to want to relive the original EQ experience from a technical issue and lack-of-content perspective. that isn't the EQ that the target audience would remember fondly or want to play when there are more polished/finished options available

[Goladus]

Originally Posted by chalon

A scripting language is something like Lua. Usually in games, the actual engine is written in C++, which only programmers modify, and then you have a scripting language which you use for gameplay code. The scripting language is usually setup in a way such that both programmers and designers can edit it. So if for instance you had some NPC start talking to you, and then walk around and fight someone, that would be written in the scripting language, not into the engine itself.

I'm actually pretty perplexed by the interview comments about the tools, because Vanguard started with the Unreal Engine, which really has amazing tools (including a scripting system built into the editor, in addition to UnrealScript). It sounds like Sigil massively gutted the system if the tools were that bad though.

If it's true, though, it certainly helps explain why the game is so buggy.


To follow up on the original question, scripting languages aren't just useful for designers. From a coder perspective "scripting" languages are often chosen for an assortment features like these:

(*)Garbage Collection.
(*)Dynamic Typing.
(*)Powerful Functional abstractions.
(*)Succinct or readable syntax.
(*)An interpreter.

When a language with those features can be used, development time will shorten and there will be fewer bugs.

[The Hiram Key]

How are we not accountible for what we post here? Fucking luncatics are scanning our post history DAILY, hell HOURLY and trying to catch us going back on what we type, or typing out both sides of our mouths. I get that shit all the time, especially when the shit is REALLY hitting the fan and I get caught up in it.

There is no difference in accountiblity honestly, though the audience following the developer comments is alot bigger then the one following our comments, and we don't have a product to sell, so we don't have to sugar coat, spin, or outright lie to get your monies for our ferraris.

There are several developers who post here actively, quite a few industry professionals and insiders as well, all who read alot I am sure, and post occasionally. Hell, even fucking Lady Daegarmo posts here.

There is nothing wrong with this forum. It has not gone down hill, and the only people who have a hang up about posting here are the people who cannot talk to us like were above the pond scum they believe us to be.

Be a straight shooter, say I don't know when you don't know, say no comment when you can't comment, and talk to us like adults (and the people who ultimately make your job possible in the first place) and you never have, and never will have problems here.

Soooooo fucking sick of the forum "downhillers". Newsflash : You lost that battle about 2 months ago, there is no need to take up arms again.

[RunningDog]

Originally Posted by Kaosu

But the best thing he could do now is redeem himself and create something actually worth a shit.
As a designer, developer, or anything else.

And so what? Nerds are mad it him. Big deal. If he lays low and creates another project under a stealth guise and releases it in good form (along with it being a good product) people WILL magically forget about Vanguard.

A lot of people are two-faced that way. (Not saying all)

Who is going to give him $30 million to develop another game after what he (supposedly) did to Microsoft?