SOE to own VG - Sigil fires employees

[chaos]

It's funny how the attitudes have shifted. I remember reading about Vanguard a while back and most people seemed to think that Brad was basically the man, that he had a plan forthe rapture or something. Reading this is quite humorous. It's sad that such horrible mismanagement was allowed to go on for so long, but it sounds like the actual devs are all going to land ont heir feet (well at least most).

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Its truly amazing how much Brad screwed up his reputation on this one. Almost a staggering reversal.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

Anyone who didn't believe that SOE was in control from the first day they started throwing money at Sigil is truly deaf, dumb and blind.

If so, why the fuck did Smed let it get released in Jan when everyone knew it wasn't even close to ready?

He already went through the EQ2 experience why would he deliberately put himself through it again?

[guanna]

youre absolutly right cuppy, but i still want my damn refund >.<

i definatly knew what was up, i was in the friends and family beta, present at both fanguards, and had just hoped and prayed and prayed and prayed and made countless phone calls to brad only to be assured it would all be fine shortly after release.

i believed! Damn you, Brad, I believed in you! IN YOU!

**falls to knees in the rain shaking fist at the heavens**

in all honesty, every single person who bought the game deserves, yes i said "deserves" a refund.

[boy-]

Originally Posted by Braen

I guess cause Brad can say something and the producer and say.. Ummm no Brad.

Well, I think pretty much we can all agree now that McQuaid is a tool, but somehow it seems the rest of the devteam is sort of getting a free pass from it.

If McQuaid wasn't the person in charge for the past 8 months, you can't be blaming him for the recent problems such as the massive duping taking so long to be solved, the rare material gathering overtune, the total lack of balance between classes, and the seemingly non-sensical approach that Sigil was taking to fixing things.

Surely the other designers (especially crafterguy, and diplo guy) have to take some of the blame on why their spheres aren't nearly as fleshed out as it should be (diplo) or incredibly grindy (crafting). The quest designers who think that "kill 47 mobs" is an acceptable dungeon quest surely also need to take some of the blame.

So I don't see how getting rid of Brad will magically solve everything, or anything. Brad was a terrible manager, we get that part already. The vision is retarded, we get that already. But it's not like the content creators below him were making fantasticly fun content either.

[Danth]

Tad, I don't believe raiding will somehow help Vanguard. Quite the contrary, I think it'll only serve to further marginalize a product already desperately short of its own unique spot in the marketplace. Most the folks who want to raid are already doing it in one of several games which already offer excellent content for that sort of gameplay. Vanguard's engine doesn't deliver adequate performance; I don't think many people want to go back to the days of looking at the floor three hours a night.

Much like Vanguard's engine, Sigil's financial management seems to have been a case of too little return for too much outlay. I enjoy Vanguard, but it's sure a buggy mess for being possibly the second most expensive MMOG thus far. That said, as a gamer I didn't waste my money on it--no more than I did on Warcraft or Everquest or Airwarrior or Aces High or half a dozen other games I've subscribed to over the last 13 years. Entertainment dollars are always seen as 'waste' by those who don't share the same tastes. I enjoy Vanguard for now; when that changes I'll find something else. The folks most up in arms seem like those who made some sort of major emotional investment in Vanguard as the Second Comming.

If EQ2 can be considered any sort of example, Vanguard might not have much hope of ever becomming a signifigant market presence (and personally I never expected such of it), but perhaps SOE can make it better for the folks still playing it. I hope I don't lose my name when they merge servers...that'd drive me out in a hurry (maybe that'd be for the best, who knows). Of course, they may also shut it down next month, I've seen that happen, too.

Danth

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by chaos

It's funny how the attitudes have shifted. I remember reading about Vanguard a while back and most people seemed to think that Brad was basically the man, that he had a plan forthe rapture or something. Reading this is quite humorous. It's sad that such horrible mismanagement was allowed to go on for so long, but it sounds like the actual devs are all going to land ont heir feet (well at least most).

Substitute "EQ fanboys" for "most people" and you're about right. The rest of us ranged from skeptical to hopeful in regards to this game (prior to the beta leaks and all that followed).

[Cuppycake]

IIRC Sigil has over 100 employees. So there are still 50+ people without jobs. =/

[kohl]

Highlight from the Gamespot interview:

JS(Smed): The game is already on Station Access, and since January, many of the bugs and issues in the game have been addressed, and the rest will be as well. Vanguard is an SOE product and we're going to make sure it gets taken care of. As for the state of the release, well, Sigil only had a certain level of funding, and we contributed as well. But the game is in good shape now. We sold 200,000 copies...I'm not sure many people realize that. It's actually a very healthy game.

SOLD 200,000 copies.... *healthy* game? Good lord. You can probably draw some sobering conclusions about the current sub level from that.

I realize Smed has to spin like mad, but wow... just wow.

[Kaylena]

Originally Posted by guanna

youre absolutly right cuppy, but i still want my damn refund >.<

i definatly knew what was up, i was in the friends and family beta, present at both fanguards, and had just hoped and prayed and prayed and prayed and made countless phone calls to brad only to be assured it would all be fine shortly after release.

i believed! Damn you, Brad, I believed in you! IN YOU!

**falls to knees in the rain shaking fist at the heavens**

in all honesty, every single person who bought the game deserves, yes i said "deserves" a refund.

You made countless calls to Brad?

[Man0warr]

Read the interview at GameSpot.

SOE hired as many employees from Sigil as budget allowed, over half of the 100+, some still working on Vanguard, others moving to a new SOE game.

Also, no one is new is taking over for Brad, Smed said that guy has been in charge of Vanguard for 8 months, Brad has been out of touch with the game for atleast that long, as seen by some of his long winded journal entries here.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by tad10

If so, why the fuck did Smed let it get released in Jan when everyone knew it wasn't even close to ready?

He already went through the EQ2 experience why would he deliberately put himself through it again?

It doesn't matter who is in control Tad, when the financials say the "drop dead launch date" is, then that's what it is. Smed obviously committed what he felt comfortable with finiancially, and that carried them to January.

It would be one thing if it was super fun, exploding beta populations, raving good word of mouth, and 90% complete, only needing another 60 days of developement, but as we all know (even you !!) that was not the case.

Another term would be a stop loss I guess. And it's food for thought, if Brad really hasn't come into work for the last 8 months, isn't that when the game began to take a huge left turn towards Wow? That would have to have been Dave's call then (since I guess Butler doesn't do anything but rave about how good the game is at E3 and how pleased he is) so in reality, we never will know how Brad's vision would have played out, since that wasn't was was released, was it now ?

[tad10]

Boy--There is a lot of good content in VG. You need a static group or enough people to sustain pugs to do it. But it is there. Of course if you meant to refer to post-40 content -- yeah aside from Xenn it kinda blew. Nusibe was kinda cool but the afrit grind for the quest rewards is gimp.

Crafter guy did some cool things but man the grind is unbelievable and the no xp for recipes you're actually going to use once you master them is beyond retarded.

Diplo guy did cool things but I'm not sure integration with the adventuring world was his bailwick. Yeah diplo should have been part of the adventuring sphere -- not a whole seperate sphere but that's not Diplo's vision -- so kinda hard to call him out for it.

[Danth]

Depending on how much SOE paid for it, it might be healthy from their perspective (eg, if someone else sucked up most the loss). If tiny little games like Aces High can eke out modest success with 10 or 15 thousand subscribers, Vanguard can with 50-75K. That's the beauty of MMOG's; once you get past initial development cost the operational costs scale nicely with the subscriber base.

Alternately, SOE may already regret their involvement and is just spinning like mad because that's what companies do.

Danth

[kohl]

Originally Posted by boy-

So I don't see how getting rid of Brad will magically solve everything, or anything. Brad was a terrible manager, we get that part already. The vision is retarded, we get that already. But it's not like the content creators below him were making fantasticly fun content either.

Check out Smed's interview on Gamespot if you haven't already. I think people are reading too much into this. SOE has no grand plans for VG. As people have pointed out so many times already, there are so many inherent flaws and issues with VG that it would require a massive overhaul & redevelopment of the game to turn it around, and SOE isn't going to fund that.

It is all laid out. They are going to keep enough people on the team to eventually get the game out of beta, but that is about it. The future content he mentioned is nothing more than the shit that Sigil already worked on but didn't implement yet.

In a nutshell, I think that people looking at SOE to be some savior to the game are going to be sorely disappointed. Nothing much will change. Bug fixes will trickle out and eventually they will add in some of the content sitting on the cutting room floor.