Well I was *NERFED* already~~

[arbosch]

Well verant not tested the cleric dmg output with the paladin dmg output. When they put this hammer in, it was clear for every Paladin that something is wrong.

Verant saw the postings on the boards. Made some test and saw that a level 56 cleric can outdamage paladins which are between 56 and 60 with there hammer.

They got 2 choices. To nerf the Hammer or to upgrade the paladins which get them in a loop that every melee want an upgrade to because the paladins got one.

There was no question what they do when they have the choice between nerfing 1 class or get in a upgradeloop for the melee classes. Sucks for the clerics but it was clear at the moment the first people tested out paladin and cleric dmg.

Arbosch Bloodforge
Ancient Orden
Vallon Zek

btw. They destroyed PvP with this patch. Root, snare get resisted berhaps 40 to 60% with 200plus resists. Dont have to say there are not many with this high resists and how much you can do when you are rooted, snared, blinded . They put casters to where it was at start again. Root, Snare, Blind and relaxe just you wake up at bindspot.

[Qhue]

The Emergency patch made the cleric proc unresistable again.

They also added in two more Cleric Hammer spells at 58 and 60. I suspect the level 60 one will drop off Luclin Ubers as a rare spell and have the old store-bought hammer proc rate.

[Makata]

I'm sorry but if they are nerfing the shit out of our store bought and claiming we can solo because one copy of lvl 58/60 spell hammer will drop a month, they will lose what little faith people like myself put in Verant.

Yes paladins and every other melee in the game had to earn their weapons but guess what, there have been weapons in game since day 1. Paladins have had an oppurtunity to get them, and they don't need the creme de la creme to operate effectively.

So now the lucky few (clerics) will be raping entire zones while the rest of us get to remain group-found. yahoo.

[Bakara]

I just wanted to call some bluffs here, I've been reading the same "losing my religion" posts about VI for ages. Don't tell us how you're going to "lose what little faith you have left in VI" if they don't do X Y or Z because that's bullshit! Just quit!

BTW, I play a lvl 60 cleric (and Warrior) and I have to say that the original incarnation of that hammer was too powerful. And for the record, I could give 3 shits what happens to that spell, I GREW UP in this game without it and I sure as fuck don't need it now.

[FuckYou]

You were nerfed? Good. Now sit your ass back down and heal me like yer supposed to, fuckhead.

[Millie]

Originally posted by Makata
I'm sorry but if they are nerfing the shit out of our store bought and claiming we can solo because one copy of lvl 58/60 spell hammer will drop a month, they will lose what little faith people like myself put in Verant.

Yes paladins and every other melee in the game had to earn their weapons but guess what, there have been weapons in game since day 1. Paladins have had an oppurtunity to get them, and they don't need the creme de la creme to operate effectively.

So now the lucky few (clerics) will be raping entire zones while the rest of us get to remain group-found. yahoo.

Earth to you: Paladins are a MELEE class. Of course they had weapons from day 1. Their purpose is to melee (and to some extent, support their groupmates).

You, being a cleric, are not a melee class. It therefore makes total sense that you should not be getting powerful melee weapons -- and certainly not fresh out of the store. It sucks that some clerics now have uber hammers and others don't. But hey, those few clerics that have them shouldn't have them in the first place. The very idea to implement this hammer spell was horribly flawed.

Third, I don't know where every cleric under the sun got the impression that they're now supposed to be able to solo viably. Certain classes have historically been better at soloing, and others have been more useful in groups. Just because the current design team is fucking things up left and right doesn't mean you should feel entitled to (melee) soloing better than a level 60 melee class.

If you do feel that a cleric should be better at melee than a paladin (or warrior, or any other melee class), or that a cleric should be soloing instead of grouping, please make a case for it. I'd love to read what you'd have to say.

[Kelval_Inny]

It was fun while it lasted, but the hammer was far overpowered as it was...

I would say, get back the proc to unresistable, and get it to proc an average 7-10 times per fight... That way, we don't compete with any true melee in damage, as we never should have, but still add some noticeable damage when we decide to melee in the group. It won't be huge, but we won't get yelled at when we have plenty of mana and start meleeing; it will in fact improve the group...

As for solo, I never planned to solo seriously with or without my hammer anyways...

[Hayley n Calystah]

Personally, I think the hammer is silly. Its not my job to melee in the slightest, Heal, Stun, Nuke when absolutely necessary. I made it to 60 without melee, I can Make it till SoE shuts down EQ. I heal, I rez. the hammer is just a novelty toy.

Try a dex buff or Khuras Focusing. In my quest for Tormax faction, I was kiling in Icewell.

Hammer would not stop proccing post patch. most common proc in in 149's. I'd say it proced at least 40 times during 1 fight.

Now if you wanna talk nerfed, lets talk XP. 3Hrs in Icewell and not even a blue line of AA? /Scowl verant.

Calystah 60 Princess Cleric
Hayley Pocket Shaman

1/2 Team Hydra

[HelzaTheDorf]

I've read these boards for awhile and this topic hit so close to home I had to post.

I am a 57 cleric on Bertox, I assure you 100 percent I will never buy any of the spells released with the latest "improvement". I am a healer I am not a fucking melee.

I played a paladin to lvl 52 if I wanted to be a paladin I would still be playing him. Would I mind solo skills? Sure, but it sure as hell would not be as a melee.

Does anyone care that one lowbie cleric is going to protest this change by not buying the spells? Nope, but I sure will feel better knowing that I am not joining in the insanity.

Of all the changes I've seen to this game in close to 2 years this is the lamest one yet.


HelzaTheDorf
57 - Cleric
Bertox

PS Furor Your post are fucking funny as hell....keep up the good work.

[Vikki]

Originally posted by Millie
If you do feel that a cleric should be better at melee than a paladin (or warrior, or any other melee class), or that a cleric should be soloing instead of grouping, please make a case for it. I'd love to read what you'd have to say.

Because it's fun for the Clerics!

*Rolls eyes*

Yes, let's have fun for the clerics at the expense of another class. It wasn't fun when A class did EVERYTHING as well as or better than you. Made it seem my choice of creating a Paladin almost three and a half years ago pretty worthless.

The Patch affected Paladins the most for two reasons.

1) Clerics and Paladins share a LOT of spell lines. All of the spell lines they share, Clerics are better at, with exception of Healing Wave of Prexus (arguably)

2) Paladin damage output depends solely on melee + procs. Our nukes (if you can call a 125 and a 245 undead attack a nuke) don't deal enough damage to make them worth casting in combat. A substantial upgrade to a class whose damage output was previously much less than ours to at/around/greater hurts us immensely, especially when it's a parent class. It hurts other classes too, but of the classes that depend solely on melee damage output, Paladins do the least of it.

[KilyinRZ]

This Vard guy is completely full of shit. There is no fucking way a cleric soloed a ssra revenant that hits for 400+ damage. In fact, I doubt most end game monks could solo that mob.

It's dumbass shitstains like you who brought this nerf on to begin with. I also heard some bullshit artist claim he soloed a POZ with the new hammer. I guess when you guys fabricate these delusional stories, you're forgetting that clerics defense cap was UNCHANGED, our dodge cap was UNCHANGED, we weren't given riposte, and we weren't given block or parry. Stealth added CA, and I'm sure you maxxed that the same fucking day and went and soloed this revenant, right?

This means a cleric tanking an unslowed mob that hits for 400+ damage is going to die just as fast as he would have pre-hammer patch. I don't know what's sadder, the fact you'd make something like this up in the first place, or the fact that VI made a kneejerk reactional nerf because of grossly unfounded lies and outright exaggerations from assclowns like you.

In closing, do the world a favor and go drink a cup of bleach.

[Baelron]

KilyinRZ I couldnt have said it better myself.

I tested the hammer extensively after the first patch and then after the subsequent nerfs.

The truth...its a toy.

The thing procs so infrequently now that I accidnetly soloed the same mob with my epic in and didnt realize it till after the fight.

All the dmg I was doing to the mob came from MOR. Basically I let the fucker beat the shit out of me and he killed himself. My pet added a little (and god I mean SMALL) amount of dmg. My melee dmg was prolly even worse than my pet (and on undead mobs). And my procs were so infrequent and resisted after the nerfs that on a 10 min fight I proc'd maybe 4 times.

There is NO WAY this hammer in the hands of a cleric does MORE DMG than a pally. Anyone who says so is fucking smoking crack. Put down the fucking pipe.

Basically cleric melee soloing, if you even want to call it that, consists of the cleric letting the mob kill itself upon his 15 point dmg shield while he tries to heal himself. The small amount of melee dmg he and his pet do is small and just an added bonus.

TRUE in the first version I was procing almost every 3 or 4 swings. But that was all of 2 hours. And even then, I had to back off, root the mob, and battle heal myself about 3 or 4 times on blue undead mobs. And I simply could NOT take certain things, they just hit too hard and too fast. Still blue mobs however.

*All tests performed in ME on undead bats, skeletal drudges, vampires, and gorangas.

You self righteous fucks who make up these lies...Its sad that you were the fastest sperm.

Vikki, there is no parent class anymore. Paladins no longer get spells from me. This stopped back in oldworld/kunark when they started getting spells I never had.

Clerics didnt ask for melee. Yes, we asked for the ability to solo, and theres no reason we shouldnt be able to. Anyone who says its fair that we are the worst soloing class in the world, go fuck yourself. We wanted our undead dots/nukes upgraded. Bring them back to the glory they once had in the old world. Where we were as efficient as wizards against undead.

It worked back then, it would work now.

And you say, VI gave you some attention and now your whining its not good enough. Thats becaue they throw us a bone we didnt ask for and its a piece of shit. And thats supposed to satisfy us? Fuck that.

[KilyinRZ]

Preach it!

Before the nerf (with avatar, 41% item haste, yaulp 5, hammer pet, and the procalot hammer) I was able to solo a five patch of mushrooms and actually had to wait about 45 seconds for respawn. Is that supposed to impress anyone? I sure as hell hope not. That's realism for you. That's also in no way unbalancing, nor does it even come close to a GOOD paladin's dps, or any hybrid/melee in the fucking game.

Top end clerics weren't soloing Rhag 1 revenants, POZ's, or anything else that could be considered out of the norm. They were killing dark blue exp giving mobs like every other goddamn class in the game is able to do. Truth be told, most AVERAGE geared clerics were still barely able to kill dark blue mobs, if they could at all. God forbid a cleric should have any fun or deviate from what they do at raids (press CH key x secs after Bob presses his CH key, rinse, repeat). That's gamebreaking, unbalancing, and overpowered. At least, according to all you suck-dick, weakling whiners out there.

Clerics didn't ask for this dumbass change, but it was put on Test, it was announced, and it was patched on to the live servers. I'll admit it was kinda fun, but I wouldn't call it overpowered, not even close. Then it was taken away in less than one fucking day. Now they've conceded and given a little bit back.

Hey, that's par for the course when it comes to Verant. But unless you play a cleric, and you PERSONALLY experienced this and parsed the damage, please shut your fucking mouth.

[Strikan]

Originally posted by KilyinRZ
Preach it!

Before the nerf (with avatar, 41% item haste, yaulp 5, hammer pet, and the procalot hammer) I was able to solo a five patch of mushrooms and actually had to wait about 45 seconds for respawn. Is that supposed to impress anyone? I sure as hell hope not. That's realism for you. That's also in no way unbalancing, nor does it even come close to a GOOD paladin's dps, or any hybrid/melee in the fucking game.

Uhm if that's true then you were doing some pretty amazing DPS which is just sick considering the spells you get. My 60 Beastlord with 18AA's and pretty damn good, though not top-end, equipment can solo a 5 shroom patch and have about 1minute or so to wait for the respawn. And even then unless I get KEI I have to med after a few spawns for a short time.

My pet does 35DPS and I do about 41-60DPS (depending on proc amount and if i put savagery up) on those shrooms. And that is counting my 150DD lure proc in primary and 100DD lure proc in secondary. Sounds to me like you were doing about 50-60DPS and THAT is just plain fucking insane.

You might think your pets 20DPS is pathetic, but put it next to beastlords pet damage and it's pretty stupidly good damage for a non-pet class. Hell without my 85% haste that's about the DPS MY level 60 BST pet does.

Fucking upgrade clerics undead nukes to 2200 for ~350 mana and get rid of all this melee bullshit. There is no fucking way you can make a cleric melee enough to matter without breaking them badly, their heals are just WAY too good to allow them to melee.

Gratzer Feen

[Vikki]

Heh, appearantly you guys don't get it.

Comparing a Monk's ability to solo is completely different.

Maybe comparing a Shaman's ability to solo it would be more viable.

But Shamans can solo Lodizal. Why? Because of Slow, combined with higher than casters hit points, defensive skills, healing, and their mana pool.

Now let me try to illustrate to you how this is done.

He said he used Mark of Karn and Retribution, now common logic would tell you that he, like any other Cleric, knows that casting MoK/R at the beginning of the fight would produce the most benefit, so we can assume that the shissar rev was taking 15 damage a hit every time it hit him.

I also know that he has an 8th Coldain ring, so the rev was talking 23 damage every time it hit him.

This is probably going to generate about 2-3 DPS for him in itself. While still leaving him at more or less FM since he has an Arrikus' BP to cast MoK. Then he immediately summons a hammer pet, doing around another 15dps, along with him meleeing with a 24/18 weapon (+10 bane vs undead), and 150ish proc every... let's say 2 out of every 3 hits? (this is the INITIAL hammer spell, not after it was nerfed), giving him probably about 25 dps. This is a combined total of about 42 damage per second, when you factor in the 25% haste from Yaulp 5.

Now buffed with Aegolism and BMB, he's got a total of about 3400hp, the shissar hits for 404 max, double, which it doesn't do anywhere near all the time. So 808 max a round, he can take almost four rounds, assuming totally max damage on every hit, which anyone knows isn't realistic.

At this point his damage output is totally mana independent, his hammer pet no longer costing him anymore than than meager 250 mana cost is on a 3400+ mana pool.

Now he casts Celestial Elixir on himself, and with Spell Haste 3 from Dain Cloak he's able to channel it through pretty easily if he times it right.

He's now regenning 313hp per tick (with Innate Regen 3), over the course of 24 seconds, for 300 mana.

Over these 24 seconds, he gains almost 1/4 of the mana cost back, regenning 71 mana total with Flowing Thought 9, the 10 mana regen a tick from Yaulp 5, and 2 from Blessed Armor of the Risen (while subtracting the 10 mana costs of Yaulp 5) during the duration of Celestial Elixir, making it essentially a 230 mana spell.

With the mana pool, regen and duration, he could effectively keep himself Celestial'ed for about 5 and a half minutes.

Now I don't know exactly how many hit points Shissar Revenants have, but at level 53-54 (they were stunnable) I wouldn't imagine more than 10k. Now earlier I estimated Vardisk's damage per second at about 43, given alot of casting and getting stunned, let's effectively lower that damage per second to about 37 dps. Over a 5.6 minute period (how long he can keep himself Celestialed) he would do 12,432 damage, 2432 more damage than its estimated hit points, so less time he has to keep himself Celestial'ed, taking approximately 3 castings off that, netting him an extra 700 mana, and also lowering the length of the fight to just under 5 minutes.

Now let's factor the Shissar's damage into this, assuming it does 80 dps, which is fairly realistic. Over the 5 minute course of the fight, it would do about 24,000 damage. Also, over the course of the fight, Vardisk has effectively kept himself Celestial'ed for 23475 hit points, Slightly over 500 hit points less than the Shissar's DPS.

However, he has an extra 700 mana left! Subtract the 250 mana he used to cast Unswerving Hammer at the beginning of the fight, leaving him with 450 mana.

I think the options he has with this extra 450 mana are more than enough to effectively negate the 500 damage gap in his hit points healed and its damage done, and that's not even accounting for all the healing he got from Mark of Karn, which alone probably would have accounted for around that 500 damage. And it's also not factoring in the 3400hp he had to start, either.

Either way it would be pretty close, but it is doable.