Majority of Republicans Doubt Theory of Evolution

[chaos]

Originally Posted by Nakilos

You know the two aren't really related, evolution isn't faith based. Its based on actual evidence, actual facts. The problem is a lot of religious people seem to believe evolution is in direct defiance of their belief in God, and that never made sense to me.

I really can't respect anyone who really thinks evolution doesn't exist, but those Senators saying that they don't believe in religion, I really don't think they really believe that. It is just something they say to appeal to some of our possibly mildly retarded citizens, kind of a way to say "see, I'm like you Cletus". You can't be as educated as some of these people are and think the jury is still out on this issue.

As much as I don't get people acting like global warming is a creation of fantasy, I can at least respect the debate to what degree is there. There is just no reasonable argument against evolution.

I understand all that, but it's pretty clear that the majority of people who do not believe that evolution is happening do so for religious reasons. And that there are some who are not religious, who (supposedly) are fairly intelligent, and still do not believe that evolution is happening. So I'd like to know just wtf they believe and why do they discount evolution.

I agree though, most of those Senators are talking shit to their base because they know it gets them elected, they may be evil but they aren't stupid.

[Nakilos]

The only thing I'll admit to believing in is that, sorry for the cliches, there is more-than-meets-the-eye when it comes to the world. Something "fishy" is going on. I've given up on science trying to find it.

You do realize its because of science that we do know as much as we do right now. That is the point of science, to figure shit out, and I'll be the first to admit there is pretty much an endless amount of things we do not know, not just about our planet, about everything beyond it (I know, its a crazy concept to think there is this whole universe out there and we're such an incredibly small part of it).

I'm ok with not knowing everything, it doesn't mean science is useless. I prefer to leave things open to be explored rather than just resigning myself to saying a magical man in the sky did it.

[Dabamf]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

You are linked through the world only through your senses. Senses can and are often deceived. Your fundamental symbolic framework cannot EVER circumvent that sense link to the world. Therefore you can NEVER be sure of what is true or not, you can never be sure of what the world REALLY is, evolution or otherwise.

Yea, this is technically true, but what is this type of skepticism *ever* going to accomplish? It is technically a valid point, but practically speaking it is preposterous and meaningless. You aren't going to just walk off cliffs or not study for tests because there really is no way to prove that you REALLY will die or really fail that test; you are going to act exactly the same as if you had 100% faith that your senses accurately reflected reality.

Originally Posted by Lyenae

The answers lie elsewhere.

You said yourself we are linked to the world only through our senses. So we therefore have no access to the answers. And even if we did, how would we really know those were the answers? See, this goes on infinitely.

In short, while technically true, the "we can't really know" argument is meaningless and preposterous. Which makes statements like "evolution is definitely true" not the epistemological error you try to say it is.

[Eomer]

But Dabamf, you have to admit, that post chock full of half assed first year philosophy vomit was really deep.

[Lyenae]

Originally Posted by Nakilos

it doesn't mean science is useless.

Science, in its core ideals (method, reasoning, etc...), is practical and useful. I don't disagree with that. I don't have issues with ideas and theories. I only have problems when scientists move from probability, likelihoods, and to unequivocal fact, truth, etc. They are overstepping their bounds.

Scientists, with experiments, have shown that evolution can happen. The problem is when they insist that it did happen. And when someone comes to this forum claiming that people are uneducated if they don't agree that it did happen, I have issues with that.

I think anyone who makes a claim like that needs to question their own education. You should take a look at personal writings of scientists, engineers, philosophers, etc... throughout time and see their own dilemmas and skepticism in their theories and beliefs.

You'll learn a lot more then any core science textbook (let alone an entire collection.)

[Lejina Bloodbath]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

Scientists, with experiments, have shown that evolution can happen. The problem is when they insist that it did happen. And when someone comes to this forum claiming that people are uneducated if they don't agree that it did happen, I have issues with that.

I'm going to make it easy for you : ever heard of penicilin and bacteria who developped resistances to it?

There, evolution happened. Fact.

[PerritoBites]

Scientists, with experiments, have shown that evolution can happen.

It is pointless to argue against religion, when the first thing that religion asks is to deny knowledge and wisdom. Religion asks you to trust what other people and a book says. There is no way for you to check if what the book says is actually true. If you question the book you are a sinner! So don't you ever do that! Don't you think that god would talk to us directly if he actually wanted us to hear him? Not talking about him talking through other people. You can't prove that god is talking to people either, so why would he do that? He certainly has the power to do anything he wants. (right?)

The problem is when they insist that it did happen.

If someone sees a coin fall from a table,writes his observations, films the coin falling, then shows you how a coin falls from the table, would you have problems if they insisted the coin can fall from a table? This is how science works. If they insist that evolution did happen is because they have observed it happening, wrote about it, took video about it, and even reproduced it!

[Menoz]

These study seems rather vague to me. I think you'd find a much lower percentage of republicans would answer 'The Theory of Evolution is Wrong' than would 'doubt' the theory. You'll probably find that many of these same 'religious fanatics' would admit that they even doubt their religion at times.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

Science, in its core ideals (method, reasoning, etc...), is practical and useful. I don't disagree with that. I don't have issues with ideas and theories. I only have problems when scientists move from probability, likelihoods, and to unequivocal fact, truth, etc. They are overstepping their bounds.

Scientists, with experiments, have shown that evolution can happen. The problem is when they insist that it did happen. And when someone comes to this forum claiming that people are uneducated if they don't agree that it did happen, I have issues with that.

I think anyone who makes a claim like that needs to question their own education. You should take a look at personal writings of scientists, engineers, philosophers, etc... throughout time and see their own dilemmas and skepticism in their theories and beliefs.

You'll learn a lot more then any core science textbook (let alone an entire collection.)

By your own logic, at least science has proved one half the of origin equation: that evolution can happen.

What has religion ever conclusively proved? Where is its track record?

Even if you insist on discounting the statement that evolution definitely happened, you've conceded that it can happen. So, by your count, right now it's Science 1, Religion 0 in a game to 2 points.

The problem, as someone stated above, is that religion is based on a fundamental, yet highly enticing logical fallacy: the appeal to tradition. "If people have been reading and believing in this book for thousands of years, who am I to doubt it?" "If some really, really old 'prophet' said this was true, and his words have endured for this long, it must be true."

Furthermore, religion closes the door to all skepticism and inquisitive/scientific process. Religion asks you to accept everything you're told and question nothing, with no empirical evidence necessary. "Because God said so" is a sufficient answer to pretty much any question one can ask of the Bible. Would you accept that sort of half-assed logic in a TV show you were following? Probably not. Then why should you accept it as the basis for your life and the world around you?

Appeal to tradition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Lyenae]

Originally Posted by PerritoBites

If someone sees a coin fall from a table,writes his observations, films the coin falling, then shows you how a coin falls from the table, would you have problems if they insisted the coin can fall from a table? This is how science works. If they insist that evolution did happen is because they have observed it happening, wrote about it, took video about it, and even reproduced it!

Claiming evolution is true is like finding a coin, on the floor, next to the table, and insisting it must have fallen off it.

If someone disagrees with you, obviously they are uneducated.

[Lejina Bloodbath]

Somehow Im not surprised that you convenientely skipped the post giving a clear exemple of evolution happening in a human life timeframe, something that cannot be argued, and instead quoted the obscure methaphore.

Smurt.

[AndersJ]

To be honest, I think a major problem of fundamental Christianity is that they take the Bible as completely historical. Does it outline some historical figures and events? Absolutely, but if we compare notes from what we know now to what actually happened there are numerous discrepancies. I think people don't look at the Bible in the viewpoint that when it was written people were trying to explain how the world was in the state that it was in. That's completely understandable for them to try and theorize on how things came into being.

Really it's a huge problem in Christianity, and I say this being someone who is a Christian, our religion looks at the Bible and if science says something and proves something with mountains of evidence, people just say, "No way, not possible." Which is fucking ignorant.

If just half these people would learn to respect the Bible for the messages it has on how to treat other fucking people instead of spending every waking moment trying to shit on science or gays, world would be a much, much better place. America too.

[Nakilos]

You are beyond hope.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

Claiming evolution is true is like finding a coin, on the floor, next to the table, and insisting it must have fallen off it.

If someone disagrees with you, obviously they are uneducated.

While your analogy is decent, I think your assessment of the scientific reasoning method is unsound.

For one thing, someone using the scientific method wouldn't just see the coin on the floor and make a definitive proclamation as to how it got there. Instead, they'd question every possible way it could get there, test them all out, prove or disprove them, and boil their guess down to the most probable and rational explanation possible. If they arrived at a conclusion, that conclusion is based on testing, questioning, re-questioning, re-testing, and intepretation of the test results.

Religion, by contrast, undergoes none of these levels of inquiry. Everything is handed to you in a book, and you need not prove or disprove any of it. All you have to do is accept it.

[Dabamf]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

Science, in its core ideals (method, reasoning, etc...), is practical and useful. I don't disagree with that. I don't have issues with ideas and theories. I only have problems when scientists move from probability, likelihoods, and to unequivocal fact, truth, etc. They are overstepping their bounds.

Scientists, with experiments, have shown that evolution can happen. The problem is when they insist that it did happen. And when someone comes to this forum claiming that people are uneducated if they don't agree that it did happen, I have issues with that.

I think anyone who makes a claim like that needs to question their own education. You should take a look at personal writings of scientists, engineers, philosophers, etc... throughout time and see their own dilemmas and skepticism in their theories and beliefs.

You'll learn a lot more then any core science textbook (let alone an entire collection.)

Again, you're being foolishly, overly theoretical.

When a theory explains a state of affairs so incredibly well, with no other viable alternatives, there becomes a point when you accept it. Many aspects of the theory have been strengthened, changed, or proven absolutely wrong, but the general idea is robust and only gets stronger.

This doesn't mean that you would bet your soul on the matter for a $1 payoff, or just stop researching it because we know it's right, just that it makes no sense not to accept it.

Think about gravity. There is no reason we are aware of as to why it exists. Therefore it could be the product of something else in such a way that this other force just happens to mimic the illusion of gravity 99.999999999% of the time. But this thought is preposterous. Why be skeptical of gravity unless we have a reason to be? The same goes with evolution. So much evidence in favor, no evidence against it, and no viable alternatives. And you choose skepticism?

Reasoned skepticism is unfortunately a rarity in the world, but you have crossed way over the threshold into foolish skepticism.