Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard?

[Regime]

Originally Posted by FuckYou

> Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard?

because people are stupid. thread over.

I actually happily await every new girl you put into your sig.

[nyx]

I'm stilll in a bit of shock here myself, reading all these positive reviews. Even MMORPG.com has VG as there top rated MMO, two days after release, after the obvious expections of a huge crash and burn....I have a hard time with it all. I'm happy for an 'upset' and yet I'm not sold yet.

As for all the vitrol, I think half of it is to be entertained. Why act rationally when people come here for the hate? It all still feels pretty strange to me, not seeing Neric/Ut all over these threads saying "I TOLD YOU SO", though.

Maybe that's next week.

[Asmadai]

I think the question being asked here tho, is why was there so much hating done when it was just in Beta? I mean, the new Barbie Dreamhouse game blows donkey nuts, but you don't see near the kind of negative feedback it deserves.

EQ looked like garbage in Beta also, yet had the majority of us not ignored the doubt and naysaying, well...needless to say none of us would be here having this conversation right now.

The answer is expectations. People had such gigantic, unearthly, retardedly-huge expectations for this game, that when it came time to deliver, which in Beta few games do, the Nerd Rage reaction caused rivaled that of Chernobyl.

Now, I propose a new question. Why did people expect so much out of this game? What caused their expectations to be so ungodly high? I played the Beta, and fully enjoyed it; course then again I didn't go into the Beta expecting the next end-all be-all MMO of the new generation. Why did everyone else?

[vynde]

Originally Posted by Asmadai

Now, I propose a new question. Why did people expect so much out of this game? What caused their expectations to be so ungodly high? I played the Beta, and fully enjoyed it; course then again I didn't go into the Beta expecting the next end-all be-all MMO of the new generation. Why did everyone else?

i think its because they miss eq so much, which is the case with me. im not a vg hater though, although this isnt exactly what I expected

[Cuppycake]

Originally Posted by Lyrical

Foh is my number one website to go for unbiased information. I base almost 100% of my buying decisions for MMO's, video games, books, movies as well as visit the TV house for ideas on new TV shows to watch.

I think that's your problem. These boards are a great place to come for opinions on games, movies, books, music, tv. I certainly wouldn't want anyone here to take my opinion for more than just that: my thoughts and feelings on the current subject at hand. You can't have an entertainment website such as this and expect to read wholly objective information. Everything you read here is going to be opinion when we're talking about reviews of either a game in beta or a game that just went retail.

If you take the question - "Is Vanguard a good game?" you're going to get 150 different answers. Personally - I didn't care one bit for EVE. Is it a good game? Well - according to a lot of posters here it is. This is an opinion based discussion board...please take what the posters say as just that, not fact.

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Quineloe

do you honestly believe anyone will become rich on a 200k sub game?

Vanguard promised so much, yet held so little, that explains rage =P

When was the last time you played the game? And I mean take a character to 15 or so not just 5 minutes in newbie zones. Seriously do you really believe you know what you're talking about?

I'm pretty tired of people who played the game in beta2 a year ago ragging on the game.

[Jovec]

Originally Posted by Dis

Seriously, having another MMO is a GOOD THING people. It means that more companies will get money to develop more MMOs, which means possibly someone looking outside of the box or doing something ground breaking (maybe BioWare?). I hope VG does well, I think they still have a lot of "fixing" to do, but hopefully they can keep ahead of the "hardcore" and maintain an open dialogue with their community, otherwise it might get nasty.

I'm not sure if Vanguard is good for the MMO industry and the players yet. It's a game with an enormous budget, a difficult and confused development and beta cycle, and released in a mediocre state of affairs. As big as the strides Sigil has made recently in improving the game, let's be honest; Vanguard is definately subpar given it's scope and budget, with it's fair share of high and low points, lacking much of the polish and flair a AAA title should have. Although things can be learned from failures (especially from failures, some might say), at the end of the year we could easily be looking at WoW with 10+ million subs with 7-8 million TBC sales versus Vanguard, which nearly rivaled WoW in terms of dev time and budget, with under a million subs (perhaps well under). I'm not sure how encouraging that will be to future investors.

What I do think the MMO industry needs are several small scale, low cost, inventive, niche, and profitable MMOs (ala Eve) that can sustaing themselves with 250K-500K subs. This will encourage innovation in a genre where it is becoming increasingly difficult to justify taking risks as budgets climb higher and higher.

[Dis]

I think that is the point though, ITS FUCKING BETA, not gold release.

People get into these free, closed betas, and all of a sudden the feel empowered that everything should be fixed immediately because the pay...wait that isnt right, just because I guess. Seriously though, I think maybe betas should be taken more seriously by developers, IMO you should have to fill out an application on why and how you would make a good beta tester, rather than just handing out random invites to 15 year olds, and 30+ year olds that act like they are 15.

It is definitely a conundrum, how do you keep the utter retards off of your beta. You want to criticize the game? Fine, do it when they lift NDA, but you should also let your readers know that the game is STILL IN FUCKING BETA. A lof of people broke NDA, and IMO moreso than I have seen in any beta (at least publicly). A lot of gamers need not look any further than a mirror, but they are so fucking vengeful, they refuse to admit they were wrong. That wrong being, it was in beta, there were issues, but Sigil worked them out, and will contine to work them out (hopefully).

[Itzena]

Time for my ha'pennorth: If Sigil has somehow managed to pull off a miracle and made Vanguard a decent game for launch (which it seems they have) - great! Nice work Sigil. More competitors (no matter the final subs base) for WoW are a Good Thing all round.

Will I be playing it?
Fuck no. From what I read, it's reminiscent of EQ-at-launch...and I remember all the nerfs, working-as-intendeds, and cack-handed PvP 'balance' from the first time around. But hey, that's just me. If other people are having fun - more power to them.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by Kreugen

Its much like the development of Aliens 3, followup to two beloved wickedly awesome and very different movies. The movie had a budget squandered by numerous rewrites, sets being made and torn down, and going through various directors until they finally wound up making a low-budget film with a big movie price tag.

VG's lack of sold foundation at ANY point of its development has made the end result less than the sum of what went into creating it. The various features that came and went in those remakes were mourned by those who didn't get to see how poorly they worked out once implemented.

Anyway, something to do if/when I get tired of TBC I guess.

Exactly.

[Froofy-D]

Personally I like it but cant get past the performance issues and it just doesn't compare in playability to WoW. EQ is #2 on my top 10 games ever list, so obviously I was pretty excited about VG. Anyway, I would attribute a lot of the nerd rage to:

SOE haters: theres a ton of them

EQ1 purists: those that think anything that wasn't in EQ1 on release is EZ mode. To them summon corpse altars, quest icons, mini-maps, radar, soloing for XP, etc... means WoW clone.

performance issues: it does not run well on average hardware.

[Cuppycake]

There's also going to be a lot of angst over VG because everyone wanted it to fill a different individual role.

Current WoW players wanted it to be similar to WoW, in ease of gameplay and polish, (and run on their 2 year old systems that run WoW smooth as butter).
Ex WoW-players hoped it would be what WoW wasn't in terms of non-repetitive collection quests, fruity colorful world, and not top-heavy.
Former EQ1 players wanted it to "OMGZ BRING BACK EQ HARDNESS"..they wanted CR's, hell levels, travel that took ages, corpse camping, etc. etc.
EQ2 players that anticipated VG hoped that it would be more like EQ1 was and not what EQ2 became.
Roleplayers wanted VG to be THE GAME that would bring back immersion and realism elements.
Crafters wanted this game to have the most complicated, diverse and indepth crafting system.
People who don't play any MMO's and were waiting for "the next big thing" wanted a 3rd gen game that brings tons of new elements to the table.
Hardcore raiders wanted VG to be like EQ1, giant epic battles against leet mobs and wanted to flash their epeen around.
Casuals wanted VG to be soloable and be able to accomplish a lot in a little bit of time.

Get it? This isn't possible for any MMO to achieve all this - yet everyone had their own personal demands for what VG would be. You're going to have a lot of haters when you're trying to please such a selfish, demanding and unsatisfied crowd.

[vynde]

Originally Posted by Goliath

I miss the EQ days, being 15 and being able to play as much as I wanted whenever I wanted, not feeling guilty at all. At least I can be grateful I had the best game for the best age. But it'll never happen again. I will never undrestand the 20+ year olds that play 4+ hours a day.

i can understand 20+ year olds doing it on weekdays if they have a full time job and they just wanna relax after coming home from work. but on the weekends people should be going out

[Bongk]

Originally Posted by vynde

i can understand 20+ year olds doing it on weekdays if they have a full time job and they just wanna relax after coming home from work. but on the weekends people should be going out

except us who are married and own a house and 2 car payments etc, who don't have the cash to go out. MMOG's are cheap entertainment. I couldn't even go to mcdonalds every weekend for the money i spend on MMOG's the price cannot be beat.

[Asmadai]

Originally Posted by Cuppycake

There's also going to be a lot of angst over VG because everyone wanted it to fill a different individual role.

Current WoW players wanted it to be similar to WoW, in ease of gameplay and polish, (and run on their 2 year old systems that run WoW smooth as butter).
Ex WoW-players hoped it would be what WoW wasn't in terms of non-repetitive collection quests, fruity colorful world, and not top-heavy.
Former EQ1 players wanted it to "OMGZ BRING BACK EQ HARDNESS"..they wanted CR's, hell levels, travel that took ages, corpse camping, etc. etc.
EQ2 players that anticipated VG hoped that it would be more like EQ1 was and not what EQ2 became.
Roleplayers wanted VG to be THE GAME that would bring back immersion and realism elements.
Crafters wanted this game to have the most complicated, diverse and indepth crafting system.
People who don't play any MMO's and were waiting for "the next big thing" wanted a 3rd gen game that brings tons of new elements to the table.
Hardcore raiders wanted VG to be like EQ1, giant epic battles against leet mobs and wanted to flash their epeen around.
Casuals wanted VG to be soloable and be able to accomplish a lot in a little bit of time.

Get it? This isn't possible for any MMO to achieve all this - yet everyone had their own personal demands for what VG would be. You're going to have a lot of haters when you're trying to please such a selfish, demanding and unsatisfied crowd.

Nail on the head. Good post.