Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard?

[Jaytee Bushwacker]

TLC would keep me away. It's fun to go back and farm stuff, redo old encounters you enjoyed. If you don't get anything for it loot wise thats a real bummer.

[Maxxius]

Originally Posted by Camerous

yeap cause someone spinning something about a game you don't even play has all to do with you... right? You don't see us fagging up WoW threads whena dev posts in... wait... that's right WoW retards are such cry babies that WoW devs don't post here do they? I think that's what it is... all you Blizz cock smokers don't get any dev attention so you flock to VG threads where the actual devs are posting cause you all feel left out. Finally it all makes sense.. your wow threads are fucking pointless and are nothing but a bunch of guys sitting around theory crafting and wishing and all that where as VG threads actually have a point and influence the game we play. Ah well... just goes to show you what happens when you make a game that all the mouth breathing masses can play...

Hey dickhead, I don't care about the game NOW. I did once until I eventually saw what a suckass game it was turning into. And where the hell were you when Brad was making thread after thread of redundant screenshots on this forum touting his dinosaur of a game. He came here for one reason, which he admitted, because the threads would take 10,000 hits. That is alot of free advertisement. The only problem tho was that it turned out mostly negative after awhile.

Now next time you spew crap, which is often, read the dam thread title first.

[Kraks]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

A lot of people really like it, including my guild who is really into it. I'm not saying everyone likes it, or that it's perfect (e.g. will continue to enhance systems trying to make them even more compelling and fun), but it's a good system overall. It doesn't appeal to everyone and I'm sorry you don't like it, but we talk to a lot of people, get a lot of feedback, and can also do queries of the database and see where people are and what they have accomplished (we can do this FAR more easily with Vanguard as opposed to EQ because we're using a powerful database).

And I am honest with you guys. I try to be very up front and to manage expectations. I don't need to lie about things. If there's something sensitive or something uncertain, then I will be vague or flat out say I can't talk about it.

Brad, I appreciate your response.

I suggest you stop looking at the "data" and start logging in, much like some GMs would back in EQ1, and ask people that are in the trenches. Not feedback systems, as we know only the people that are absolutely in love or absolutely appalled with things typically respond there.

Honestly, the crafting system could be much better. The randomness is what kills it. A good sword smith in real life doesn't sometimes make a good sword, sometimes make an ok sword, and sometimes make a crappy sword. This isn't Honda, Ford, or GM, we're not putting out hundreds of items. We're putting out special, select few, custom made items. These things should take time to make, something that isn't in the game currently. However, when they are made, they should be fantastic. The length of time to create a nice sword should be determined in the actual crafting, not in the gathering of materials (as it is now).

I'm no developer, but I could come up with some ways to make crafting require actual skill. Show the weapon forming on the screen instead of some generic every MMO Crafting Window. Show the hammer. Go to a first person view...the sword is forming in front of you, a minor bump here, a dull edge there. Actually incorporate folding into it. The more you fold the metal, the better the item will become. Actually incorporate the mixing of carbon and iron to create steel. No need for Black Iron and Star Iron and other falseties. Just make the best weapons take hours upon hours of real time invested into them. Make the crafting work to maintain a constant temperature. Allow him to hire 1 or 2 weapon smiths 1 or 2 tiers lower to come and manage the bellows, and in return for their work they gain XP and learn how to make the items themselves.

Something better could be done easily, and it would make more sense, and be 1000x more immersive. I would sign back up immediately and play any game that could do something similar with their crafting system. REAL crafting is the key to immersion within an MMO, something no game has come even close to.

[Ravensign]

Originally Posted by Kraks

REAL crafting is the key to immersion within an MMO

If you want to craft it is.

I personally want to be involved in epic struggles built around combat. A game's crafting system, while important mechanically to the economy, and to some player's gameplay has absolutely no bearing on my sense of immersion whatsoever.

[Maxxius]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

. . . . in that we had to launch a bit early, . . . .

Why?

[Witoubo]

Originally Posted by Camerous

OMG you are right!! Thanks for posting this and showing us the error of our ways. There is no way anyone can enjoy VG Cause you have said they can't. Wow that takes a load off my mind. Thanks a lot! Of course we ALL want instanced content cause there is no way any of us could think that instances are not a good thing... cause hey you have to be right! Right?

Well first off, dumb fuck, a lot of people like VG. There is plenty of content there. 2nd not everyone wants a pussyfied world where everything is instanced and all the babies get every thing handed to them on nice little platters cause if they had to actually work for something and earn it they would cry and moan all day long.

As it has been said, this is exactly the type of post and attitude that kept me away from the game. Why would I want to try a game that has issues, work past the problems, try to find the fun. So I can play with Camerous? Fuck no sir.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by Maxxius

Why?

He already said, The money was running out.

[Neric]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

The raid dungeons are incredible

Incredible in comparison to what? This is a serious question btw.

[Aradune Mithara]

Originally Posted by Maxxius

Why?

We had to agree to a launch date, or there would be no money to continue. This was unfortunate, but we will and are recovering. This game was expensive -- probably second only to WoW, although WoW cost more than double. I don't want to sound jealous, although I probably am to some degree to be honest, but Blizzard put $80M into development. No one else is willing or able to do that. Not Microsoft, not Sony. EA perhaps, and they're now back in the MMOG business with the Mythic acquisition (but at the time we started Sigil, they were still in a lot of pain over Sims Online, which is rumored to have been around $25-30M -- so at the time they were not interested in a game like Vanguard. And certainly not smaller publishers -- they definitely don't have that kind of money.

The reality is that Blizzard has been a fantastic company for many years, known for it's quality RTS games. They've been very profitable and pride themselves in taking whatever time they need. This allowed them to take the time and spend like I said more than double what Vanguard cost, EQ 2 cost, etc. They also, because of how popular the Warcraft and Starcraft RTS games were and are in Asia, have a great name there, a great sales force that understands and thrives in a very different market (where you sell to PC Bangs as much as you do individuals). They are even making great in-roads into China. The result? The money they put into the game was well worth it and the game is doing incredibly well.

But in a sense, I can't really complain. That Sigil, a start-up company, was given the money we were is probably unheard and totally unprecedented. If it wasn't for our EQ heritage it never would have happened. We also set out to make a very ambitious game. In 20/20 hindsight, we could have scaled things back, but we didn't know that we'd need to launch a couple of months early. Also, WoW has exposed people to MMOGs who likely wouldn't have tried them -- back when we were pitching Vanguard the general belief was that the MMOG market was saturated and only about a million or so people were interested in MMOGs. WoW blew open the gamespace, destroying the theory that the gamespace was saturated. This is good for all MMOG developers, especially those who began development after WoW.

So I'm not upset in anyway with SOE or Microsoft -- again, what they did give us in terms of funding and support is unprecedented. The vast majority of developers would kill for such a budget as we received. It's just a financial reality that is hurting us short term a bit, but something I know we can and are recovering from. Also, launching around the same time as Burning Crusade wasn't optimal either, but again, nothing we can't recover from.

What are we going to do about it? Well, the team is continuing to crunch and kick ass and are quickly making up for what happened. We're killing bugs, tweaking content, adding polish, etc. And, at the same time, putting in new content as well. We're patching often and the game is getting better every day. That, combined with the hooks and planning we did early on, makes me really excited. I'm loving the game now, and I'm just as excited about the future. We have 5+ years planned out in terms of expansions, live updates, new game mechanics, etc. We'll be able to take advantage of new technology, implementing it relatively easily because of the way the game is architected.

So that's it in a nutshell. A little frustrating short term, but the game is out, it continues to sell well, churn is very low, and the word continues to spread that the game is fun. Also, hardware is becoming cheaper and faster and as people upgrade their machines for Vanguard and other newer games either already out or on the horizon, the performance issues will go away. EQ 1 had a similar issue, but it paid off as well -- we were one of the first hardware only games (remember the Voodoo 1?). People needed to upgrade, but within 6 months or so after launch, Voodoo 2s were out, etc. and performance issues all but went away. In fact, performance past us up and we were able to create zones more detailed in our first expansion (Kunark) without any problems. This will happen with Vanguard as well.

[Aradune Mithara]

Originally Posted by Neric

Incredible in comparison to what? This is a serious question btw.

How massive and detailed they are -- I've personally never seen dungeons with such potential in terms of gameplay coupled with their sheer size and the awesome artwork. They are some of the last dungeons we made and the artists really had the tools down pat. And with the designers tools also that much more mature, what they will be able to do and are already starting to do in these dungeons is pretty mind blowing. I was talking with Tagad a while ago who is populating the City of Brass and it's going to be crazy He did some really cool dungeons in Velious with the old EQ 1 tools -- I can't wait to see what he and other designers will be doing in the raid dungeons in Vanguard.

[Aradune Mithara]

Originally Posted by rinthea

When can we expect to see a few percent of the 20% raid advertised? Seriously I ask.

I don't have a solid date, but I know it's already being worked on. Basically, as fast as we can, but we also need to make sure the low and mid levels are a bit more solid too. The majority of the design team is cleaning things up and balancing and making the game even more fun, with the minority working on new content including raid content. This will change soon, however, and the majority will be working on high level and raid content.

[Aradune Mithara]

Originally Posted by xregg

Still having a blast. Like I said before this is a hardcore game for hardcore players with hardcore machines. I like the way it is just fine sure it has a few problems but I havnt felt like this since eq. Havnt missed a day of logging in yet.

I also like the fact that I have grouped with no leet speak temper tantrum loot hording 13 years olds. The overal vibe seems to be way more mature than some of the other bug free super mmo's out there


Blacken {Talisman}
Flamehammer Server

Nice screens! What level are you?

[stevemcqueen]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

Huh?

I thought VG handled death rather well no matter what type of player you are. It has a bit more sting than WoW, but by no means is it as strict as EQ was back in the day.

Either get your corpse and suffer 1% exp loss, or dont get it and suffer 7%.

Sorry mate but what you think, is your opinion only.
I like the death penalty, although in fact I think is not harsh enough.
But many more people in this thread and other forum I browse, don't feel the same way.
Just scroll up and read some of the posts more carefully.

[stevemcqueen]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

Sounds like every other game. As if we never heard the old "casual vs hardcore" debates here for 6 yrs now.

No it's not.
This is not about the "Old Casual vs Hardcore" debates, because Vanguard is the subject.
You don't see soo many debates around a game with so little subscribtion base.
Vanguard generates almost the same amount of threads as WoW, but Vanguard has around 2% of the subscribers of WoW.
That's because either the casual and core player base feel betraied by Sigil promises that the game will be the way they like it.
That's as simple as that

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

He did some really cool dungeons in Velious .

SOLD!