Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard?

[stevemcqueen]

Originally Posted by Danth

In response to the post discussing what the market wants, I have to point out that Runescape is almost nothing but a long grind with slow-paced combat, a harsh death penalty, and bad graphics. It pulls in over 800K subscribers. Even accounting for its subscription price, it's probably more successful than games like 'Dungeons and Dragons Online' or 'City of Heroes'

I think the real lesson here isn't that any given type of game can or can't flourish, it's that a studio has to know its target user base and do a good job of appealing to those people. Runescape mostly attracts kids; WoW pulled in a huge number of non-gamers. Jagex and Blizzard both have a good idea of who they want their products to appeal to. The same can probably be said about CCP.

A studio also has to control its budget. A game can probably turn a profit with a 10K user base ('Aces High' still survives), but such a game can't spend tens of millions on development. Vanguard's huge budget requires a fairly large subscriber base just to recoup development costs.

Danth

I agree with this post in particular with the bit marked in Red, I think that's the real problem with Vanguard.
It stands too much in the middle and both parts are angry with Sigil because the game has not enough features that fully satisfy them.

[Mkopec1]

Originally Posted by stevemcqueen

I agree with this post in particular with the bit marked in Red, I think that's the real problem with Vanguard.
It stands too much in the middle and both parts are angry with Sigil because the game has not enough features that fully satisfy them.

Nahh, actually from what I saw its exactly how Bradley described it a while back, saying 20% solo 60% group and 20% raid.

From what I have seen in VG so far is most of the content tailored for groups, with a spattering of solo type content here and there.

And this is basically the carryover formula from EQ. In fact I think it has even more solo friendly content than EQ since basically all 2 dot mobs can be soloed.


I dont think it stands too much in the middle of anything. If you have a solid group of friends to play VG with, you will have a blast. and have acess to 80% of the games content.

[stevemcqueen]

Originally Posted by Mkopec1

Nahh, actually from what I saw its exactly how Bradley described it a while back, saying 20% solo 60% group and 20% raid.

From what I have seen in VG so far is most of the content tailored for groups, with a spattering of solo type content here and there.

And this is basically the carryover formula from EQ. In fact I think it has even more solo friendly content than EQ since basically all 2 dot mobs can be soloed.


I dont think it stands too much in the middle of anything. If you have a solid group of friends to play VG with, you will have a blast. and have acess to 80% of the games content.

Sorry didn t get your reply.
What is gotta do the "standing in the middle" issue with the fact that if u group u get acccess of 80% of the content?

What we are saying is that this game doesn't make happy neither the casual players nor the core players.
Both have game design issues againsts Sigil.
And that s why there is so much furore around this game.
Core players are firing nukes to Casual players and Sigil, and Casual players are retaliating with heavy artillery on Core players and Sigil.
That's happening because Brad has never been really clear to which market this game is aimed for.
The 20-80-20 formula has nothing to do with Casual or Core, because both can prefer group or solo, we are talking about the death penalties and features like that.
That's what divides players not if the game has more or less solo/group content.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by stevemcqueen

That's happening because Brad has never been really clear to which market this game is aimed for.

Actually he has. Originally it was at the 'core' player, but this was when he was still calling WoW a 'beer and peanuts' game that wouldn't see population growth after a year. Well, after eating crow there, he clearly had to reevaluate the target market.

[Mkopec1]

Originally Posted by stevemcqueen

Core players are firing nukes to Casual players and Sigil, and Casual players are retaliating with heavy artillery on Core and Sigil.

Sounds like every other game. As if we never heard the old "casual vs hardcore" debates here for 6 yrs now.

It does not really matter for whom this game is really designed for. I think if you play this game for longer than a week you come to the conclusion yourself that this game is tailored for people which like to group rather than solo. Because all of the more compelling gear and content is all based around a solid group and dungeons. But if you are content in soloing the rare solo quest hubs and 2 dots, you can in fact solo to cap.

[Maxxius]

Originally Posted by Phlean

. . . .
This part isn't directed at you btw just in general. Its annoying to read threads about VG, and WoW and have people instantly fagging up threads about things that have been rehashed way too many times. Also, no one likes having something they enjoy doing being shit on, being told they are stupid for liking something. So you like instances, no exp loss CR's, and extreme soloability, then maybe this game is not for you. Why do you care if this game or any game doesn't have any features you like? This game isn't for everyone, and neither is WoW, EVE, or any thing else for that matter. Go find something you enjoy and quit preaching the same message over and over, we get it already. No one enjoys far left/right wing politics and thats what this board and more specifically VG threads have turned into. . . .

Hard to ignore the thread after Brad does his wall of text/spin in it. It begs for reaction, which is what it generated. Whether VG is or is not for me was never the issue. I just don't care anymore what happens to the game. But when the spinmeister spins, I can't help but reply.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by stevemcqueen

The 20-80-20 formula has nothing to do with Casual or Core, because both can prefer group or solo, we are talking about the death penalties and features like that.
That's what divides players not if the game has more or less solo/group content.

brad you rock!! 120% content. uwu

[Mkopec1]

Originally Posted by stevemcqueen

Sorry didn t get your reply.
we are talking about the death penalties and features like that.
That's what divides players not if the game has more or less solo/group content.

Huh?

I thought VG handled death rather well no matter what type of player you are. It has a bit more sting than WoW, but by no means is it as strict as EQ was back in the day.

Either get your corpse and suffer 1% exp loss, or dont get it and suffer 7%.

[r.gun]

Yeah, I really don't see the big issue with the death penalty. It's not like back in the day when you wiped at a late night raid and then had to stay up extra late to get your corpse because there was no way in hell you were getting it solo any time soon. If you're running low on time, or it's late just fucking summon your tombstone and be done with it. If you've got the time to spare, run back and get your corpse. Also, there are enough classes that can sneak, or invis that you could even get one of them to help and get your corpse out of dungeons in no time. I've helped countless people with tombstones on my Psionicist.

[Reggie]

How about the cheap fucks who would rather die 4 times and take 4 hours doing it than just buying a 80pp coffin.

I never understood those dumbasses that would white knuckle the old logic handle, missing the critical thinking part.

Ahh well it's an MMO, not a Nobel Laureate cookout.

Having played EQ before corpse summons' were available, yeah I would have to rate VG's death penalty (sans bugs course) at defcon: Hello Kitty.

Originally Posted by woqqqa

That's damn funny. Also, is your avatar a zombie Ann Coulter? (picture's a bit too small for me to be sure)

Yes sir I believe so. It's from a Photoshop Phriday a while back. Real freaky looking dude was shopped into all sorts of pictures. Got to disturb the hell outta some friends with em.


Edit: Here's a link, god some of these are top notch.

That Creepy Bastard

[Mkopec1]

Yeah I remember my little bro, only like 12 at the time crying and shit because he lost a corpse somwhere in the Everfrost maze of snow with 5pp on it and some shitty gear.

I remember looking and looking, but could never find it.

[Camerous]

Originally Posted by Maxxius

Hard to ignore the thread after Brad does his wall of text/spin in it. It begs for reaction, which is what it generated. Whether VG is or is not for me was never the issue. I just don't care anymore what happens to the game. But when the spinmeister spins, I can't help but reply.

yeap cause someone spinning something about a game you don't even play has all to do with you... right? You don't see us fagging up WoW threads whena dev posts in... wait... that's right WoW retards are such cry babies that WoW devs don't post here do they? I think that's what it is... all you Blizz cock smokers don't get any dev attention so you flock to VG threads where the actual devs are posting cause you all feel left out. Finally it all makes sense.. your wow threads are fucking pointless and are nothing but a bunch of guys sitting around theory crafting and wishing and all that where as VG threads actually have a point and influence the game we play. Ah well... just goes to show you what happens when you make a game that all the mouth breathing masses can play...

[Reggie]

This thread needs more funny.

Kiss and make up guys.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Camerous

all you Blizz cock smokers don't get any dev attention so you flock to VG threads where the actual devs are posting cause you all feel left out.

Or maybe it's just that we don't need them to come here and blow smoke up our ass, pat us on the back and reassure us that it will all be better some day.

You really should bottle up that emo rage and sell it, could make a fortune at your local high school. Then once it's all out, take a step back and see the difference in reactions to a post by someone like Nino, who shoots straight and someone like Brad, who couldn't spin a fucking dreidel at Hanukkah.

[Reggie]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

You really should bottle up that emo rage

So should you sir. /nyaa

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

could make a fortune at your local high school.

I am going to infer you are not far from said school age.


BRAAAAAAAAAAD My cup is EMPTYYYYY BRAAAAD!

Mah GAW you spinned Brad! I feel letdown, but passionate about it!