Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard?

[Twobit Whore]

That thread literally scares the bejeezus out of me.

Honestly, if I were Brad I would come here and face people like Ut, Hiram, etc. before I responded to people like that Rourke character.

[Gaereth]

It always seemed to me that the folks that dissed WOW as ezmode, etc, etc, got their talking points almost directly from Brad. He scoffed at WOW in the beginning, said it wouldn't last, would have no retention, blah blah blah woof woof. Those that were following his game took their cue on how to act towards WOW almost directly from him and his posts.

Now you see a big ass post saying how they are trying to dispell those 'rumors' and 'misconceptions'.

hah

When you create and encourage a culture of arrogance that eventually leads to having to ban those that voice said culture you have an issue. Glip started having to ban those that said "Go back to WOW", "This isn't your ezmode game" etc etc....EVENTUALLY. But it was so deeply rooted in the actual culture of Sigils boards that it remains to this day even though the board members have spread across multiple sites.

Sure, people tend to clump and defend their chosen turf, but when the leader of one side speaks negatively about the other then you can absolutely guarantee that his followers will pick up that torch and run with it.

-shrug- Doesn't surprise me that people have a negative or wrong impression about VG....they read what you said Brad.

[Erronius]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

That thread literally scares the bejeezus out of me.

Honestly, if I were Brad I would come here and face people like Ut, Hiram, etc. before I responded to people like that Rourke character.

I don't know, Mr_Bloodworth sounded a bit worse to me.

Plus the amount of ignorance and misinformation, much of it in regards to FOH as a guild, is astounding. Not that it will stop anyone from making wild accusations and claims as though it was fact.

Another part (it's ~pg8 or so iirc) that got me was the idea that FOH posters are in general "whiny, and bitch a lot". This from a thread that started from bitching that Brad posted on another site, heaven forbid! GG.

It is truly amazing the vitriol and hate that is directed at the FOH forums due to the simple fact that so many here are outspoken and speak their minds.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Erronius

It is truly amazing the vitriol and hate that is directed at the FOH forums due to the simple fact that so many here are outspoken and speak their minds.

This may sound cliche, but I think a lot of it stems from jealousy. Jealous of the fact that FoH has been a prominent organization since the dawn of MMO's, and devs and industry leaders recognize that fact. Plus it is a great unofficial outlet for airing laundry and tackling issues that you don't want (or simply aren't addressed) on your official forums.

[Erronius]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

This may sound cliche, but I think a lot of it stems from jealousy. Jealous of the fact that FoH has been a prominent organization since the dawn of MMO's, and devs and industry leaders recognize that fact. Plus it is a great unofficial outlet for airing laundry and tackling issues that you don't want (or simply aren't addressed) on your official forums.

I'm sure that is a good deal of it. I just went back and checked on that thread for giggles and now people are hating on the FOH Forums because of what happened in EQ years ago. It's almost as if people are still carrying around all this hate and baggage from the old days of EQ, and hating on the forum community here because of it.

Hey Brad....thx for stopping by /wave. - Page 23 - Silky Venom

Originally Posted by Mcpally

As far as FoH is concerned. For those of you that didn't play EQ, if you saw the massive degradation of EQ that Furor and FoH caused with their non-stop whining and threats to pull out and goto another game that lasted through ALL of the PoP expansion and part of the GoD expansion till they left for WoW beta, you would understand why many of the old EQ community does not like FoH.

I still to this day have a few choice words for Furor and would love to deliver them.

I like how FOH and Furor single-handedly caused "the massive degradation of EQ", lol. What a bunch of garbage. I could give them several reasons for the failings of EQ, and FOH wouldn't have caused any of them that I know of. I played EQ and I knew a lot of people who left for WOW, and none of them left due to FOH at all...that's just laughable. Many have their reasons for not liking FOH, or these forums, and some have valid reasons /shrug. But to lay the blame for EQ's problems at the feet of FOH is just ignorance of the highest magnitude.

I do feel a little sorry for Brad in that he cannot simply post wherever he wants to without a ton of mouth breathers having aneurysms over it. I can agree that there should be an 'Official' forum for VG, but to start a thread specifically bemoaning the fact that he posted here seems a tad...hmmm...I can't think of an appropriate word atm...

EDIT: Brad had to post and explain to them why he posts on FOH.

Originally Posted by Brad

Hi guys.

I covered this before but am happy to again.

I post on FoH and elsewhere because, especially FoH, gets a lot of views.

I also respond to general questions there.

The guys in development who are more hands on respond to specific questions here and on other affiliate sites.

It's really as simple as that. My job in posting is really to spread the word about Vanguard. I'm not in the trenches enough to be posting specific responses to patches, class issues, dungeon issues, etc. Designers and coders should and are doing that as often as they can, although keep in mind they are very busy working on the game itself.

So getting upset that I am preaching the gospel of Vanguard on sites that hopefully reach out to people who are wary of Vanguard, not playing it, etc., with all due respect, doesn't make a lot of sense.

I think the devs posting on the affiliate sites answering specific game questions makes sense, and me evangelizing on more general, more widely read sites does make sense.

And yes, as the previous post says, he people on the general FoH boards are almost never FoH members; rather they are a bunch of MMO enthusiasts and critics. My honorary affiliation with FoH has nothing to do with me posting there in the slightest. In fact, some of our devs were/are active FoH members and you see them posting on affiliate sites answering specific Vanguard quesitons.

[Guzrog]

Originally Posted by Gnome Eater

Actually, cutting the community forums was a great idea, since it became pretty much an echo chamber of people frustrated that Vanguard didn't conform to their vision, and you seem to be unhappy you cannot be on their boards bitching up a storm.

Negativity breeds negativity, and loudmouthed whiners will squash out any positive discussions.

One of my biggest complaints was that the only way of getting feedbacks to the developers during beta was through batphone usage, since any constructive thread about a specific aspect of the game got hijacked by whiners who tried to use it as a soapbox to whine about general unhappyness.

Completely Agree.

[Faltigoth]

Originally Posted by Erronius

I do feel a little sorry for Brad in that he cannot simply post wherever he wants to without a ton of mouth breathers having aneurysms over it.

The mouth breathers got their way once, with a game called WoW, when someone had the balls to post someplace other than the WoW Forums. That set a shitty precedent, no matter what the reality is; the perception is that the masses cried and were rewarded by never again having Blue post anything of importance other than in the Sacred Holy of Holies of the WoW forums, and especially not for those mean elitist pricks at FoHguild.org!!

Now, of course, I know that isn't entirely true; but perception is everything. I imagine they are trying to do the same sort of thing now, and I don't think its going to work, heh.

[stevemcqueen]

I am a bit confused here.
Brad insists in marketing this game for everyone.
I suggest he needs to play it first, because it absolutely ain't (unless he is playing a different version of Vanguard not still released).

When he talks about this game being for everyone he is missing a big point.
He needs to take into consideration that Casual gamers want to stay at the same pace as everyone else, that's why they play games like WoW, because even putting little time, they can have at least a lvl 60 well equipped, like anyone else and they won't feel inferior to others, that's the point.

Brad is not lieing that in Vanguard you can solo and you don't need the help of others to level, that's of course "theorically" speaking.
Practically, it is another matter.
More "dedicated" players will outclass and outlevel casual players.
In Vanguard there are different means to level up and generally all this means are geared up towards players that have lots of time.
Crafting, Adventuring, Diplomacy, in all of them in order to succeed you need to put a hell of an effort and time.
You can choose to just level up through single quests of course, but believe me, you won't go too far.
I am by no mean a casual gamer, I dedicate a fair amount of time to Vanguard, yet I feel already left behind both in crafting and adventuring.
I don't mind, I like the game therefore it s not my main concern (my main concern is the game being unsteable, which is driving me to a mental breakdown).
But I put myself in the Casual player shoes, which after trying this game is going to think what on earth Brad was on when he marketed this game as casual player friendly.
Casual players who bought this game are incensed, because they think they've beed lied too, and I believe they are right to be angry.
Brad, please tell me that the Infineum Questline is for solo or even casual players, if u dare.
In this questline you have to solo, group and even raid (the captain needs 2 groups to have a chance to kill him).
This questline offer really nice rewards, which you will never be able to acquire if you choose to solo in Vanguard.
On the other hand there is not a similar quest that you can solo which offers the same uber rewards (not on my knowledge at least).

So to aswer the question of the OP.
Contrary at what Brad said that apparently all this hate is fault of all those EQ lovers who spread the word that Vanguard is an updated EQ, I actually think that the fault is his for not being clear to what player category this game is aimed for (and also making sure that this game is not playable only on a Nasa computer, would help a hell of a lot too, you are cutting off around 70% of the player base who has normal PC, so you know).
I will make myself more clear.
With his fancy marketing compaign, he attracted people who liked meat,fish and vegeteables saying that each one of them can fully enjoy and appreciate this mouth watering dish.
In reality he created a chicken casserole (with some peas) and market it as "suitable for vegetarians".
Yes of course there are vegetables in it (the peas remember?) but problem is that Vegetarians don't like and won't eat meat!!!

What I suggest Brad, who I love dearly, is to concentrate in making Vanguard a super MMO for non casual gamers.
Why? Is it an egoistic request? Not it ain't.
It is a logic request.
The market is saturated of games for Casual, you name it they are all for people with little time to play (and rightly so, since they are the majority of players).
Are all those games succesful? Of course they are. WoW and GW are a shiny example.
Problem is that at the moment there are not games around who can satisfy people who wants more from a MMO.
Those kind of people are still looking for the right game to play, because no one could be arsed to try and make a game that doesn't put casual elements in it.

There is no point in chasing the big boys like Blizzard, Arenanet (ex blizzard) because they know how to make games for casual players, they have a huge experience in the off-line market which is mainly made by casual gamers.
They will always win, let them do the Disney games.

What Brad is doing by trying to please everyone is a new EQ2 in the making.
EQ2 has never being able to overtake EQ in subscriptions (a 7 y/o game), that says it all on what those kind of players wants.
People don't want games that stand in the middle, want games with attitude.
WoW is the Casual gamer benchmark, make Vanguard the Core gamer champion.
Just be bold and do what you gotta do, the market is there, just go and grab it mate.
Drop this marketing gimmick of "one fits all", it ain't gonna work, no matter how much "viral" marketing you do, you will only give players bad diseases, and they will develop "anticorpses" against Sigil, like they did for SoE.

Vanguard is not for Casual gamers. Period.
Speak with your heart, not with your wallet Brad, sometimes it gets better results, trust me.

[xmod2]

Originally Posted by Erronius

It is truly amazing the vitriol and hate that is directed at the FOH forums due to the simple fact that so many here are outspoken and speak their minds.

And it got Ut and tad10 banned.

I would prefer to have people posting here be able to throw a couple "fuck you"s back and forth. It pisses me off when people talk shit about VG in a VG thread and a bunch of faggots jump all over them. The fact that everyone here sees themselves as some MMORPG power-player means you're never going to have everyone jerking each other off agreeing about how great something is. Someone will always hate what you like here, grow a pair.



Oh and btw Brad. I didn't fucking bump this thread so you could use it as a platform to post a big long piece of shit that doesn't even have any kernels of corn in it. If you want to sell VG you can buy ad space at the top and bottom of the page like everyone else. Nino, etc actually post interesting shit that isn't "omg web 2.0 viral advertising on FOH dudes". I'm sure most everyone here has tried VG whether they talk shit about it or not, you don't have to tell them what it is or isn't... they know. That the thing about fohguild.org (or at least the older members, previous to the rally calls from VG forums that sent a bunch of noob faggots our way), people tend to be informed and try to stay informed.

Anyway, I played VG. Didn't get far enough to hit any game breaking bugs, but had some fun while I was there. Can't play seriously because my fucking RL friends run on like fucking 386s and can't even load the game. Felt a lot like EQ2 more than EQ1, just a few different mechanics and different lore.

[Bolero]

Jesus, Brad uses so many words to say so little. I can picture Brad as the Dilbertesque character in the meeting prattling on while the other employees wait for him to leave so they can get the real meeting on with. "We need to think outside the box to synergize our value added strategies for revenue! Viral marketing!".

[redjunkopera]

Originally Posted by stevemcqueen

Vanguard is not for Casual gamers, yet.

fixed

[Camerous]

*shakes head*

You bitch and moan cause he hasn't posted since release and then you bitch and moan cause he does. Some of you are like the little piss ants on the WoW forums... bitching just to be bitching.

What exactly did you want him to say? Give you their design docs for the next 6 months so you can feel good knowing what they are going to be doing? Or perhaps you want him to start recording their meetings and posting those because you are such an important part of the making of VG *rolls eyes* He has posted many times that he can't answer specific questions cause he doesn't know the answers... that is pretty fucking honest and up front to me. You know that 90% of the time when he posts it is going to be fluff cause that's his job... to get people interested in the game. No more no less. If you had half a brain still functioning in that biased head of your's you could read his posts for what they are and move on. We all know it's a bunch of PR... it always has been but not all of us seems to take it personally that Brad isn't posting about shit he has no idea about.

So what happened? Did he kill your dog or something cause some of you fuckers act like he owes you money or something. Never seen such a bunch of whiny ass bitches crying cause someone posts here. Get over it.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Camerous

*shakes head*

You bitch and moan cause he hasn't posted since release and then you bitch and moan cause he does. Some of you are like the little piss ants on the WoW forums... bitching just to be bitching.

I don't recall seeing anyone here complain that Brad wasn't posting. I also don't see anyone complaining that he did post. I do see people questioning the content of said post though, and they are right to. 95% of it is shilly fluff that says nothing other than what we have heard for the last few months. Hell, he could go back to posting screenshots and say more.

[Soygen]

Wait a second...I'm in FoH?!

[Cascow]

Ya man.

I never got my decoder ring either

Our EQ2 guild even merged with FoH....where's mah decoder ring!?!?!