Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard? - Page 3

Maxxius · 01-31-2007, 10:48 AM

I only jumped on board regarding the issue after I got tired of reading Brad's constant "used carsalesman" whoring on the boards. Doesn't impact me if VG succeeds or fails, so I have no rooting interest either way. I just don't like the bullshit.

spentmotiff · 01-31-2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaos

I'm really tired of the bullshit. Yeah at first it was entertaining, now it's annoying.

Heh, while it can be annoying, you may as well enjoy the ride. With people as passionate as they are about Vanguard on both sides of the fence (the haters and fans,) this isn't going to let up for a long, long time.

Vanguard gets decent subs and decent reviews? The haters come in and knock it down as a failure no matter what the numbers are (using WoW as their measuring tool, of course. )

Vanguard flops in terms of reviews and subs? The fans come in here and blindly defend the game as a success in it's own right (using Asheron's Call as their measuring tool, of course.)

When either side comes in, the other side jumps in the thread and drama ensues. I should really stop peaking in the threads, but God help me, Vanguard threads are the car crashes of the FoH message board world and I just....can't...look...away.

Morderick · 01-31-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildstone

Because people say crap like this, and it just eggs on the Vanguard haters.

If you can't see the potential VG has over WoW I think you're the one talking crap.

Flinch · 01-31-2007, 10:55 AM

It's too brown.

Seriously?

My hunch for the longest time has been that Vanguard appeals more to to the 'serious' or 'hardcore' roleplaying types whereas WoW appeals more to the gamer types. There just happens to be more of the latter category than the former.

I dunno. My view of Brad has always been of that one dude you always knew in high school who wore the Metallica t-shirts/shirts with a huge fucken dragon and played D&D and had Green River killer eyes. People who take their gaming way too seriously and really immerse themselves into the game and have their fun that way.

WoW just serves as an endorphin farm and is more about 'hack and slash' than actual roleplaying.

I'm not trying to say that Vanguard is a game *just* for LARPers or hardcore RP types or whatever, it's just that it seems the game is designed with that sort of approach in mind. The differences between VG and WoW are more than just mechanics and graphics, in other words.

There's that, and the fact that a lot of people don't forget the bullshit that was forcefed to them in the 'glory days' of EQ. You beat a dog with a stick enough times, and it'll come to fucking hate your guts.

Daerath · 01-31-2007, 10:57 AM

Simple. People are tired of being fed hype only to have the game they became excited for turn out to be a complete disappointment.

Now, if you rage against a game and it turns out to be successful you end up being pleasantly surprised.

Trebla · 01-31-2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weritech

The only positives you hit on weren't exactly positive, just...

1.) It's better than beta.
2.) It runs decently.
3.) It's like EQ

There really are a lot of true positives, and most of them have been touched on in the various threads.

1) Non-combat advancement. True character development via crafting and diplomacy. If there's anything that sets Vanguard apart, that's it. Many people have been wanting something like this for a long time. Depending on higher level interrelation, crafting may not work out well, but Diplomacy advancement seems to scale well.

2) More advanced combat. While only a step up from WoW/EQ2, it's not quite the mindless button mashing. Detailed knowledge of your abilities and exploiting temporary weaknesses on NPCs make you actually pay attention. Yeah, it's a bit twitchy and you're watching for icons, if it becomes a "visual clue" on the actual NPC like the FAQs claimed, that would be a huge improvement.

3) It's non-linear. Ok, you still level up and follow quest lines, but it's not the WoW/EQ2 model where at level 6 you go to this part of the zone, then levels 10-15 are in the next zone... the quests hold your hand the whole way. It's much more EQ'ish where you're dropped in and have minimal guidance about where to go. You branch out very quickly.

So the OP may not have made great positive points, but there are some great things. Not fully fleshed out or "ready for release," but saying "It's good, and has a ton of potential" is pretty damn accurate.

Quineloe · 01-31-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spentmotiff

As opposed to 3 years ago when having a 100k sub. game was considered an amazing success?

1. No, in 2004 a hundred k wouldn't have been "an amazing success"

2. Success doesn't mean people become rich on it. Certainly not the developers.

Quote:

I'm not trying to say that Vanguard is a game *just* for LARPers or hardcore RP types or whatever, it's just that it seems the game is designed with that sort of approach in mind. The differences between VG and WoW are more than just mechanics and graphics, in other words.

You ARE trying to say that there will be serious roleplaying in Vanguard, right? If so: lol

Kreugen · 01-31-2007, 11:05 AM

Its much like the development of Aliens 3, followup to two beloved wickedly awesome and very different movies. The movie had a budget squandered by numerous rewrites, sets being made and torn down, and going through various directors until they finally wound up making a low-budget film with a big movie price tag.

VG's lack of sold foundation at ANY point of its development has made the end result less than the sum of what went into creating it. The various features that came and went in those remakes were mourned by those who didn't get to see how poorly they worked out once implemented.

Anyway, something to do if/when I get tired of TBC I guess.

Eomer · 01-31-2007, 11:05 AM

Nice, a thread discussing why there's fanboys bagging on or exalting about a video game, has turned into a thread with fanboys bagging on or exalting their pet game.

chaos · 01-31-2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spentmotiff

Heh, while it can be annoying, you may as well enjoy the ride. With people as passionate as they are about Vanguard on both sides of the fence (the haters and fans,) this isn't going to let up for a long, long time.

Vanguard gets decent subs and decent reviews? The haters come in and knock it down as a failure no matter what the numbers are (using WoW as their measuring tool, of course. )

Vanguard flops in terms of reviews and subs? The fans come in here and blindly defend the game as a success in it's own right (using Asheron's Call as their measuring tool, of course.)

When either side comes in, the other side jumps in the thread and drama ensues. I should really stop peaking in the threads, but God help me, Vanguard threads are the car crashes of the FoH message board world and I just....can't...look...away.

Passionate is fine, that's actually good and speaks to the game's good qualities, even if it's directed in a negative way. But seriously, every single VG thread has to be ruined by this stuff. I just read it at this point to see what kind of cool features they have added, like when Tad10 mentioned the weapon quests, that is a really cool feature and I'll bet most people don't know about it due to the fighting on the board.

Grown men and women, mindlessly identifying with corporate properties over which they have no control, so much so that real discussion cannot be had. I don't know, maybe I just don't care as much as these guys do. I mean I like WoW and I'm having fun playing it but I feel no need to go defend the honor of Blizzard in every VG thread.

Bolero · 01-31-2007, 11:08 AM

So many people whined during the beta on all of the boards. I think that is where most of the negativity came from. People don't understand what alpha/beta is for and just want to play a free video game.

machineman · 01-31-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Istros

Most VG haters started out as vanbois. Heck I was on the Sigil forums everyday prior to and during early beta. Unfulfilled potential can drive people nuts. Wtf did they do with their time and money for years before like three months to release?!

This is me.

I was a vanboi because I had such high hopes... then, not only to see them dashed but in such a way that made the betas look literally like high school projects, it was embarassing.

It still sucks to this day. Yes it improved alot to the very end of beta, but it is far and away anything that was promised. And just plain not fun. Combat as a rogue? I may as well be standing still rolling dice. It's THAT bad.

Dashal · 01-31-2007, 11:13 AM

Because the game lacked direction for a good long time. Or maybe it's more appropriate to say changed direction, I dont really know.

Bottom line is, the game has "good bones", a solid foundation. This is why you hear so many people saying "Wow it really came a long way quickly" in my opinion.

Arbitrary · 01-31-2007, 11:14 AM

Guys, I heard Lucas is going to make another trilogy! I can't wait to see the beginnings of Darth Vader and the Old Republic and how everything happened!

Same exact kind of nerd hate got thrown at Vanguard.

Lenardo · 01-31-2007, 11:16 AM

imo a year ago VG was a shitty game-diplomacy was god awful, and so was crafting

imo 6 months ago VG was a bad game-diplomacy was still bad, and i won't touch crafting with a 10' pole..

imo 2 months ago VG was an ok/decent game with shitty client performance on older systems....diplomacy was now a card game...and i still won't touch crafting...

with a few tweaks VG runs decently now...now i could figure out what the @#$%$@ is happening to kill my fps when in the SAME area for over 10 minutes (/flush is your friend)

my main tweaks- so far- select high performance then play with the sliders, Terrain Detail at high performance- is set at about 25%,...

going from 0% to 100% i saw a 2 fps difference..so i have that maxed(makes the world look SO MUCH BETTER), i have grass off, clouds i have off, clip plane is set low- i have not tweaked this, i am shooting for a clip plane setting of about 50,000 (500 meters) to 100,000(1 kilometer) (the game settings are in CENTIMETERS)
..

averaging about 25fps out of town currently and 18ish in town,....

01-31-2007, 10:57 AM	#35 (permalink)
Daerath Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,024	Simple. People are tired of being fed hype only to have the game they became excited for turn out to be a complete disappointment. Now, if you rage against a game and it turns out to be successful you end up being pleasantly surprised. __________________ Lukas: it is, he used his own logarithms that he wrote for the shadow system in doom 3 which was simply not needed. Eomer: logarithms huh? Fuck you are an idiot. Lukas: algorithms, sorry mr english teacher Kan: lol that goes beyond misspelling thats just plain retardism Lukas

01-31-2007, 11:05 AM	#38 (permalink)
Kreugen Fires of Heaven Ancient Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,135 +71 Internets	Its much like the development of Aliens 3, followup to two beloved wickedly awesome and very different movies. The movie had a budget squandered by numerous rewrites, sets being made and torn down, and going through various directors until they finally wound up making a low-budget film with a big movie price tag. VG's lack of sold foundation at ANY point of its development has made the end result less than the sum of what went into creating it. The various features that came and went in those remakes were mourned by those who didn't get to see how poorly they worked out once implemented. Anyway, something to do if/when I get tired of TBC I guess. Last edited by Kreugen; 01-31-2007 at 11:33 AM..

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01-31-2007, 10:48 AM	#31 (permalink)
Maxxius Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: n/a Posts: 1,607 +1 Internets	I only jumped on board regarding the issue after I got tired of reading Brad's constant "used carsalesman" whoring on the boards. Doesn't impact me if VG succeeds or fails, so I have no rooting interest either way. I just don't like the bullshit.

01-31-2007, 10:55 AM	#34 (permalink)
Flinch SWEDGEN! Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 525	It's too brown. Seriously? My hunch for the longest time has been that Vanguard appeals more to to the 'serious' or 'hardcore' roleplaying types whereas WoW appeals more to the gamer types. There just happens to be more of the latter category than the former. I dunno. My view of Brad has always been of that one dude you always knew in high school who wore the Metallica t-shirts/shirts with a huge fucken dragon and played D&D and had Green River killer eyes. People who take their gaming way too seriously and really immerse themselves into the game and have their fun that way. WoW just serves as an endorphin farm and is more about 'hack and slash' than actual roleplaying. I'm not trying to say that Vanguard is a game just for LARPers or hardcore RP types or whatever, it's just that it seems the game is designed with that sort of approach in mind. The differences between VG and WoW are more than just mechanics and graphics, in other words. There's that, and the fact that a lot of people don't forget the bullshit that was forcefed to them in the 'glory days' of EQ. You beat a dog with a stick enough times, and it'll come to fucking hate your guts.

01-31-2007, 11:05 AM	#39 (permalink)
Eomer You mean I can change this? Neat! Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 12,975 +66 Internets	Nice, a thread discussing why there's fanboys bagging on or exalting about a video game, has turned into a thread with fanboys bagging on or exalting their pet game.

01-31-2007, 11:08 AM	#41 (permalink)
Bolero Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Irvine Posts: 131 +0 Internets	So many people whined during the beta on all of the boards. I think that is where most of the negativity came from. People don't understand what alpha/beta is for and just want to play a free video game.

01-31-2007, 11:13 AM	#43 (permalink)
Dashal Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,278 +2 Internets	Because the game lacked direction for a good long time. Or maybe it's more appropriate to say changed direction, I dont really know. Bottom line is, the game has "good bones", a solid foundation. This is why you hear so many people saying "Wow it really came a long way quickly" in my opinion.

01-31-2007, 11:16 AM	#45 (permalink)
Lenardo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 2,648 -23 Internets	imo a year ago VG was a shitty game-diplomacy was god awful, and so was crafting imo 6 months ago VG was a bad game-diplomacy was still bad, and i won't touch crafting with a 10' pole.. imo 2 months ago VG was an ok/decent game with shitty client performance on older systems....diplomacy was now a card game...and i still won't touch crafting... with a few tweaks VG runs decently now...now i could figure out what the @#$%$@ is happening to kill my fps when in the SAME area for over 10 minutes (/flush is your friend) my main tweaks- so far- select high performance then play with the sliders, Terrain Detail at high performance- is set at about 25%,... going from 0% to 100% i saw a 2 fps difference..so i have that maxed(makes the world look SO MUCH BETTER), i have grass off, clouds i have off, clip plane is set low- i have not tweaked this, i am shooting for a clip plane setting of about 50,000 (500 meters) to 100,000(1 kilometer) (the game settings are in CENTIMETERS) .. averaging about 25fps out of town currently and 18ish in town,....