Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard?

[tad10]

So when are you going to roll your VG toon Itzena?

[Itzena]

Six months after Sigil is bought out and the EQ2 Live team is moved across to revamp the game.

[Arden]

Originally Posted by Cloud9_

Why would you wish for the game to fail, or for more people to hate it. Me personally, even if I don't really love the game, I wouldn't wish for it to get shut down. More games = good for the gamers.

You got me all wrong brother I don't wish for any such thing, nor do I happen to think it is going to be an issue in this case. I am not the type of person that hangs around in threads about games I don't like (to be honest, I always thought that was a little strange).

I was just poking fun of Machineman's clear "concern" with the influx of positive feedback Vanguard has gotten since launch. It's almost as if he chose a side a long time ago, and now that his side just had a major setback it's making him a little nervous... The whole idea of sides and "turning tides" and such, like the Vanguard thing is a war or something, kind of makes me laugh.

What's interesting to me, however, is how much the VG Haters Club has actually done for the game. In some ways, they have done more than any Vanguard fanboi could have alone. Their ardent and often maniacal obsession with spamming Vanguard threads with aspersion and controversy has done a large part in assuring that every Vanguard thread extends hundreds of posts within a matter of 2 days, and that the front page of the FoH forums (as well as other game forums) has three active Vanguard threads at any given time.

With their help, it is pretty much impossible to read the message boards and NOT see Vanguard plastered everywhere. Hell, I wonder how many people played Vanguard just to see what all the fuss was about, and which "side" was right. I'd also be willing to bet that many of the Haters Club played Vanguard more than the fanbois just to make sure their data was up to date and as accurate as possible before heading off to the forums to do "battle" with the fanbois (save Neric of course, whose steadfast and meticulously maintained ignorance stands as a bastion to all that is lazy and uninformed criticism).

It's the old Howard Stern effect- his fans listened to him 2 hours every day, but his hate club listened to him 4 hours every day, just to get enough fuel to feed their burning hatred Good times

[Nattac]

Originally Posted by vynde

however i do agree that i didnt really see a soul in wow.

I Totally agree.. I like WoW, it really is missing something though.
It has great atmosphere.. quest extremely well done.. But something about it doesn't bring me rushing home to play it.

Plus i love doing dungeons with other groups in it. It's something i wish WoW would have

[Cybsled]

WoW has alot more soul/personality then VG, that's for sure. How can you see events like Millhouse Manastorm in Arcatraz and think it's devoid of one?

[machineman]

Originally Posted by Turzem

They showed us that you can create a world that is sterile, repetitive usually ugly and lacking soul of any kind but that as long as it's simple entertainment the masses will love it. The WoW designers are hacks, they accidentally struck gold on a premise that I've been preaching for over 8 years now.

I'm sorry... I'm not a WoW fanboy, but you can't be serious.

It's not even a discussion that Blizzarad has people who can make great GAMES. They do it time and again.... they know what their doing.

Sigil has engineers writing stories, engineers doing 3D modeling, engineers doing lighting, engineers working on animations, and engineers doing art direction. Blizzard on the other hand has artists and the appropriate professionals working on their craft in each individual area... it's obvious to 8 million people the quality of this game.

Not denying WoW is simple to play, that's part of the draw. But it's also a professionally done game with an expertly crafted interface, whereas Vanguard continues to feel like a college project from a group of mediocre students.

You call them hacks? And you do what in the game industry again?

[Ossoi]

Originally Posted by Arden

In some ways, they have done more than any Vanguard fanboi could have alone. Their ardent and often maniacal obsession with spamming Vanguard threads with aspersion and controversy has done a large part in assuring that every Vanguard thread extends hundreds of posts within a matter of 2 days, and that the front page of the FoH forums (as well as other game forums) has three active Vanguard threads at any given time.

Damn you mean an MMO forum actually has threads about a new MMO! Shock horror. You totally forget that for the past 2 years this forum has essentially been a WoW forum...

[machineman]

Originally Posted by Arden

Hell, I wonder how many people played Vanguard just to see what all the fuss was about, and which "side" was right. I'd also be willing to bet that many of the Haters Club played Vanguard more than the fanbois just to make sure their data was up to date and as accurate as possible before heading off to the forums to do "battle" with the fanbois (save Neric of course, whose steadfast and meticulously maintained ignorance stands as a bastion to all that is lazy and uninformed criticism).

It's the old Howard Stern effect- his fans listened to him 2 hours every day, but his hate club listened to him 4 hours every day, just to get enough fuel to feed their burning hatred Good times

Anyone who picked up the game just to see what the fuss is about is guaranteed not to be playing it in 2 weeks. Fact. The game is fucking rat urin.

I played the beta for over a year... I hardly "chose a side" . Every week I would try and feel refreshed about the game. I'd read the boards (now non-existant of course). I'd re-read the web site about all the cool things like in-depth crafting, diplomacy, etc. I'd think "what the fuck am I missing? It must be me... I need to go back in there and concentrate on making sure my experience is fun and correct".

Then I realized how ridiculous it was - me, week in and week out testing the game, and somehow thinking it was MY responsiblity to make it fun.

At least half (that's 50%) of the bugs I submitted since I started are still there. That's over 13 months ago.

All of these factors finally woke me up and the reason I'm so angry is because I wanted Vanguard to be the game to end all games... not even close.

Like WoW or not - it absolutely raised the expectations on the level of quality, finish and polish and MMO should have - it had attributes reserved for only the best OFFLINE games. Vanguard? Liking EQ1 and reminiscing about it is no reason to produce a game that looks and plays like it, in the year 2007.

[Kolle]

Maybe for a lot of people, myself included, playing VG over WoW means spending $500-1,000 in upgrades. That is, if playing at balanced or higher with decent fps means anything.

I don't know that i've seen any arguement for it being that good. I don't even know if the game has raid content. If there's a VG fan here that has a compelling arguement then let's have it.

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Itzena

Six months after Sigil is bought out and the EQ2 Live team is moved across to revamp the game.

I should put this in my sig, never was a more true prophecy spoken on these forums.

[Turzem]

Originally Posted by machineman

I'm sorry... I'm not a WoW fanboy, but you can't be serious.

It's not even a discussion that Blizzarad has people who can make great GAMES. They do it time and again.... they know what their doing.

Sigil has engineers writing stories, engineers doing 3D modeling, engineers doing lighting, engineers working on animations, and engineers doing art direction. Blizzard on the other hand has artists and the appropriate professionals working on their craft in each individual area... it's obvious to 8 million people the quality of this game.

Not denying WoW is simple to play, that's part of the draw. But it's also a professionally done game with an expertly crafted interface, whereas Vanguard continues to feel like a college project from a group of mediocre students.

You call them hacks? And you do what in the game industry again?

I've said nothing about VG.

It is obvious that Blizzard has managed to hire a lot of talented individuals, and a lot of retards. The inability to maintain any kind of coherence or plot between zones. The pocket-areas which don't belong anywhere. The endless upgrades to two slots while the rest get ignored. It's like they don't have a meeting where people sit down with their notes and compare. This has lead to a bizarre mix of high quality, functional things and low quality crap.

I have realized that WoW is incredibly formulaic, derivative, and without soul. It's success is a conflation of many issues, not the least of which is that Blizzard excels at slick presentation.

Originally Posted by vurt

You rebel you.

I love hilarious sarcasm. Keep up the good work.

[vurt]

Originally Posted by Turzem

I've said nothing about VG.

It is obvious that Blizzard has managed to hire a lot of talented individuals, and a lot of retards. The inability to maintain any kind of coherence or plot between zones. The pocket-areas which don't belong anywhere. The endless upgrades to two slots while the rest get ignored. It's like they don't have a meeting where people sit down with their notes and compare. This has lead to a bizarre mix of high quality, functional things and low quality crap.

I have realized that WoW is incredibly formulaic, derivative, and without soul. It's success is a conflation of many issues, not the least of which is that Blizzard excels at slick presentation.

The problem isn't that you're critical, it's that you're rabidly critical. I think WoW is boring, but I appreciate the fact that it is a quality game--not my game, but it's well done (especially relative to the other crap out there).

You know how there are those rabid fanboys who irrationally defend a game? You're at the other end of the spectrum, and it's just as ridiculous.

[Kolle]

Originally Posted by Turzem

I've said nothing about VG.

It is obvious that Blizzard has managed to hire a lot of talented individuals, and a lot of retards. The inability to maintain any kind of coherence or plot between zones. The pocket-areas which don't belong anywhere. The endless upgrades to two slots while the rest get ignored. It's like they don't have a meeting where people sit down with their notes and compare. This has lead to a bizarre mix of high quality, functional things and low quality crap.

I have realized that WoW is incredibly formulaic, derivative, and without soul. It's success is a conflation of many issues, not the least of which is that Blizzard excels at slick presentation.



I love hilarious sarcasm. Keep up the good work.

Seems more like you want WoW to be like that instead of having experienced it as truly being that way. And now you can't really be honest without looking like a hypocrite. The stuff you're saying about the game isn't entirely accurate. Kinda sounds like some random shit you just say about something to appear as someone who knows what their talking about. It's like the movie reviews where some overpaid idiot says a movie is, "joyously refreshing".

WoW definately has a story to it and if you bother reading quests and paying attention then you can appreciate the work they've done. All of it isn't contained within each zone either. The only way anyone could possibly say that with a straight face is to either not play WoW and lie or go out of their way to skip things.

This also reminds me of the "WoW has no community" bullshit. Of course it does. Jaded assholes who are too used to EQ1 where they were part of an established community don't want to put forth any effort to help build or be a part of a new one find it easier to believe no community exists. So yeah, WoW has no soul. That must be it.

[ArkturusMaximus]

Originally Posted by Turzem

It is obvious that Blizzard has managed to hire a lot of talented individuals, and a lot of retards. The inability to maintain any kind of coherence or plot between zones. The pocket-areas which don't belong anywhere. The endless upgrades to two slots while the rest get ignored. It's like they don't have a meeting where people sit down with their notes and compare. This has lead to a bizarre mix of high quality, functional things and low quality crap.

And you claim to have played WoW? I can't speak for the Horde side, but Alliance zones have quests and storylines leading to and from one another. The Defias, Dark Iron dwarves, troggs, furbolgs, twilight hammer, corruption from the Burning Legion invasion, etc. There is a definite flow of plots and lore from one zone to another if you gather up all the quests and pay attention to what they say.

[Mkopec1]

WoW is definitely more polished, and it should be based on the amount of time and money they threw at it. That being said, different strokes for different folks. Its all good, dudes.