Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard?

[Morderick]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Heh, who the fuck is Ferrago? Highest rating is 81% and it's from a noname source. GG.

Same as those giving it 30%... proving that smart ass comment about the 69% review is worth shit.

STFU?

[Twobit Whore]

The bias and ability of reviewers aside, 1UP is a rather huge network in gaming media.. Ferrago is a fucking nobody. Seriously, you fail.

[Lyenae]

Even if the only reviews that matter are the 80% ones, 80% games do not make people buy new computers. 80% games are not incredible. They are 'good', that's about it.

As for reviewers not able to really review an MMO, that's more or less bullshit. Don't fucking kid yourself.In a few hours you can get a spot on idea as to whether an MMO is worth playing. No amount of secret/special content at higher levels will radically change what a game should be reviewed at

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

Even if the only reviews that matter are the 80% ones

Which was actually my original point. If the best thing you can say is it got an 81% at best (of which only 3 of 29 are 80-81 out of an average of 69%), then it isn't something you really want to point at as validation.

For comparisons sake, EQ2 has an average of almost 84%. WoW at 92% and DDO got 76%.

[Manticore]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

As for reviewers not able to really review an MMO, that's more or less bullshit. Don't fucking kid yourself.In a few hours you can get a spot on idea as to whether an MMO is worth playing. No amount of secret/special content at higher levels will radically change what a game should be reviewed at

I doubt that a reviewer who played eve for just a couple of hours can get a solid grip of the "end game" evolved around the 0.0 player politics

[The Bog]

People just loved this review.

[Erronius]

Originally Posted by Morderick

When you get a real computer you'll see how incredible this game is and it's FULL of content.

A 'Real' computer? Wait, wait a minute, can't you see what is wrong with this? Have you even been reading the VG threads or did you just now decide to jump in with some ignorant comment?

The tens of millions of gamers playing other MMOs, MMOs that don't need a top-end machine, don't have 'real' computers then? What, is everyone playing WoW on 486s?

Can you not understand what is wrong with expecting people to get a 'real' computer (at least $1k US lets say), JUST TO PLAY A SINGLE MMO?

And for the love of God and all thats Holy, what the fuck does your system have to do with CONTENT? At BEST, system specs would indirectly affect the content one would see, and thats arguable. Even if you are lagging and hitching, you should be able to see whether or not the content is crap. If you were arguing that people's poor systems were adversely affecting performance, that would be valid. But to say a person's system is so outdated that they cannot remark on content is just ignorant. Especially considering the fact that people have been bitching about game content (or a lack of it, right or wrong) for a long time now. So, Bog tries the game and finds the content lacking like many other people have, and you are going to claim that it is because of his system? What, lag and hitching obscured content like some magical internet fog that hides questgivers and fluff so that all that was left for the Bog to do do was to 'kill grasshoppers'? Just STFU, either there is enough content or there isn't.

Besides, it isn't Bog's fault that he lags in VG, especially when (as he said) every other fucking game runs fine. Just because Sigil set the performance standards beyond what 75% of gamers systems can handle with their current systems doesn't mean that those gamers are responsible for making up that difference. (of course 75% is an estimate) Expecting millions of gamers to rush out and drop $1k just to play a single MMO (one that many would argue isn't worth playing anyways) is just stupidity of the highest order. I sure as hell hope Sigil understands that the Bog isn't in the minority here, and that this is going to restrict their sales.

But go ahead and keep thumping your chest about 'real systems', especially when everyone else understands that the VG requirements are far and away beyond what was reasonable to expect of anyone but the minority of players with true high-end systems.

[Cantatus]

Originally Posted by kohl

I really think Sigil gambled and lost with regards to the tech in Vanguard. I don't understand why Brad had such a hard-on for that specific engine but the end result is that too much emphasis was put on bells and whistles versus tangible fun gameplay. I can understand wanting to future-proof your game to some extent, but you don't need the bleeding edge engine of tomorrow for an MMORPG, I'm sorry... especially if doing so actually hinders the product.

They lost the gamble as far as I'm concerned. I'm one of his potential customers that would be playing right now if it didn't have such high requirements. I realize my computer isn't great (and might upgrade within the next year or two), but like The Bog, my computer is good enough to play everything else.

Brad might draw the comparison between making EQ require tech and Vanguard do the same, but to me, it's like saying getting new brakes is relatively the same as buying a new car. When EQ came out, I went down to Best Buy and bought pretty much the cheapest videocard they had and put that into a computer that was over 2 years old. It ran everything perfectly until Luclin came around. With Vanguard, I'm looking at several upgrades or a completely new computer (which would probably be better considering the upgrades wouldn't cost much less than a middle of the road machine).

Sort of sucks that I followed the game since the old days when it was just the Sigil forums, but then they made their intentions clear, and it was really no big surprise. I plan to update my computer soon, like I said, but at this point, if I'm going to upgrade solely for Vanguard, I might as well wait 6 months to a year until the game has a lot of the issues fleshed out and get something that will handle the game even better.

Originally Posted by Nattac

I don't get this powergamer having good pc's deal. I'm a powergamer and i wish i could upgrade every 2 years, but that'll never happen. I guess he means a avg poewrgamer or powergamer=people with money ><

Yeah, not sure where the idea comes from that powergamers automatically have money. Oh, how I wish that was the case.

[Gaereth]

It is amazing really.

When you get a 'real' machine all the bugs are gone, travel times are reduced exponentially, all the content works, nothing is incomplete, there are so many people to group with you have to beat them off with sticks, the raid game is fully implemented and functional, the FPS never drops below 40 and people come to your house with pizza and beer when you get hungry.

But....only if you have a 'real' machine.

[Cantatus]

Originally Posted by woqqqa

Consoles ought to be the future of gaming, it's a lot harder to make this sort of mistake if you're writing for one basic spec.

I think that's definitely one of the things that makes console gaming more appealing to people. I can load up my PS2 and play any game made for it. I potentially can't do that with my PC. Microsoft is spearheading their "Games for Windows" initiative to try to make PC gaming more attractive. Perhaps one of their goals should be to establish a recommended set of requirements every year that developers try to aim for.

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by The Bog

People just loved this review.

The comment section is filled with rabid vanboys its actually humorous.

[Gaereth]

Ya know somethign I just noticed....Brad keeps comparing things to EQ1 and 1999.

The subs are as good or better than EQ1 at the same point.
We made EQ higher tech as well and people came and played.

But....in the last 7 years landscape of gaming has changed. You will never garner even the subs that EQ1 had if you don't have a good release. With the sheer variety of games out there you have to get people into your game at release in pretty large numbers to allow for growth otherwise you are going to hit the cap on your subs pretty damn quickly. I would love to see him justify similar numbers to EQ1's release in 1999 with a budget many times larger, tons more experience in the genre, and an exponentially larger player base to pull from.

EQ2 is a pretty damn good game now but it got hit with problems and a decided lack of fun at release. It hasn't grown noticeably because people have moved on to other things but with the impression I keep getting from Brad it should be growing well because everything has been fixed and its a good game now even if it had issues at release. He seems to be living in a reality where...well...reality doesn't seem to correspond to what he actually sees.

The tech thing tends to piss me off more than anything else. For EQ you were generally talking about stuffing a 3d card into the puter and DONE!!! For VG your talking ram, vid cards, processors, hard drives and the ability to tweak the settings in not only the game but the OS as well. For some people it might very well be just a vid card, but for most it takes more than that to get the gameplay up to a decent level. Do people honestly think its an apples to apples scenario??

People are starting to sit on puters for a longer period of time now because there isn't a large portion of what they do with their machines that changes the hardware requirements quickly or at all aside from gaming. And even for gaming you aren't seeing people dump a lot of money because most current games will run adequately on their existing machine.

For most folks a 1-2k investment is a pretty damn big deal that has to be justified with a bit more than a game that isn't even working all that great at this point. We would all LOVE to have up to date hardware at all times...but that isn't the reality for the majority of us.

[Braen]

Originally Posted by The Bog

People just loved this review.

Shill!

[Cuppycake]

Originally Posted by Gaereth

EQ2 is a pretty damn good game now but it got hit with problems and a decided lack of fun at release. It hasn't grown noticeably because people have moved on to other things but with the impression I keep getting from Brad it should be growing well because everything has been fixed and its a good game now even if it had issues at release.

Exactly. Too little too late as has been said a countless number of times here. =x That's why I have to laugh when the Vanbois start arguing that the game has time and that Sigil will fix this and correct that and add this other thing. Point of the matter is - none of that means dick if you don't have players there to experience the content.

There is only so much people are going to pay a monthly fee for. Its a cycle...regardless of the changes you make you're just going to lose subscribers at this stage in the game, not gain them. I'm not saying that is the way it should be...its unfortunate because EQ2 *is* an incredible game now...its just so lacking in playerbase. I'd hate to see Sigil experience the same thing, but it appears that's what will happen. =/

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by Gaereth

It is amazing really.

When you get a 'real' machine all the bugs are gone, travel times are reduced exponentially, all the content works, nothing is incomplete, there are so many people to group with you have to beat them off with sticks, the raid game is fully implemented and functional, the FPS never drops below 40 and people come to your house with pizza and beer when you get hungry.

But....only if you have a 'real' machine.

Where can one buy this 'real' machine? This better not be sarcasm I tell you!