Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[James]

All I want to know is whose dick do I gotta suck to get into Alpha? Moorgard's? Shit, I'll suck it. Come on over here and drop trow, sweet cheeks, daddy needs a new beta key.

[Erronius]

Originally Posted by James

All I want to know is whose dick do I gotta suck to get into Alpha? Moorgard's? Shit, I'll suck it. Come on over here and drop trow, sweet cheeks, daddy needs a new beta key.

QFT

[Utnayan]

Having said that, everything goes by the wayside and there's no more BS or speculation about what we're doing, trying to do, or any of that.
It becomes VERY real at that point

No, that doesn't end until release day and people see if it is a bust or the people in charge of it are full of crap.

I suggest a Non-NDA Beta to shut me up. NDA's do one thing. Block the bad press (Or sell the good press). If you have a solid game and you are confident in it, you won't slap an NDA on it.

You will also see a hell of a lot of support from the people that play these games and will be able to relate with you. It's better to have a buggy game through beta, where people know it's beta, and get better feedback across many different fronts -- than throw on an NDA and speculation, launch nightmares, etc - get worse. Unfortunately every single NDA in an MMORPG has a reason, and it isn't to protect trade secrets (Which are not secret) or sell exclusive preview content. It's to hide the shit title and disguise it long enough to they can sell base units.

[Frax]

WoW didn't really have an NDA even in the friends and family beta, I think? I forget its been so long and i'm old!

edit: err, and my point was the lack of an NDA didn't hurt them at all.

[Flight]

Originally Posted by dorfeater

I guess the "living breathing world" thing about MMO's is dead with all this talk about offline rewards and browser based bullshit.

When you log out, your toon goes to sleep for the night. Nuff said.

First it was zone maps.
Then it was crazy addons that tell you when to take a shit.
Next comes browser based tasking, LFG and chat systems.
Soon enough you'll just be paying $15.00/mo for an empty box, irc chat, and a game called "Imagination the MMO"... wait a minute. Are we de-evolving back into MUDs?

Offline resources are great, don't get me wrong. Armory, Forums, Even Sony's EQPlayers thing had some good points.

But the second you allow someone to play the game offline, even if it is just simple, mindless tasks like gathering or farming. You've just made a horrible mistake in my opinion.

Though.. that would be a good way to combat the gold farming companies. Make everyone a bot.

*rolleyes*

The LFG app with a link to launch the game is about as far as I would take it. Anymore than that and you're just pushing it in a direction where people wont log in to your game.

Think about it, Your main toon in WoW. What would you login to him for, aside from raids, if dailies and farming mats for elixir's, pot's and food's could all be done offline?

Even if it doesn't start out this way, we've seen it in WoW one hundred thousand times. Blizzard implements something to make things more streamlined/easier. Then the masses say, well wtf.. if we have this, why can't we have that too? Then three patches later, we have that.

I guess it really doesn't matter to the gaming company though. Whatever the fuck is making them money, and ideas like this probably would make a shit load of money.

But I thought the majority of the discussion in here was about making good games.

We weren't discussing playing parts of the game via browser through the day, when not actually in the game. We were considering time based character advancement, as an addition to the regular XP or skill system, and perhaps tasks that could be scheduled while playing the game and which you could then maybe monitor from a browser. There are a lot of options and it needs whiteboarding with a group of people.

Interesting that today Blizzard is discussing putting a time based advancement system into WoW 4.0 on top of XP. It will work and it will come to be looked on as a standard, even though EvE did it first WoW is in danger of going doing in peoples memory as implementing it as an AA. Copernicus should implement something along these lines and make sure to release ahead of WoW.

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Flight

Copernicus should implement something along these lines and make sure to release ahead of WoW.

No. The best time to release would be 6 months post expansion. I guarantee you if they try to fight WoW evenly they will get their ass kicked. If they want a shot, they will have to position the release before the 1st patch of the expansion and after time has passed so people are bored again.

For instance, a release at this moment in time would be perfect if they had a release worthy game. Everyone is bored to tears and mounted combat is terrible. Everyone is pretty much able to catch up with gear in no time with the new badge system, and everyone is waiting on Ice Crown Citadel. This latest patch was terrible.

But I can guarantee you if you release a month ahead of an expansion, try to beat one, or shortly after, you aren't going to succeed.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

But I can guarantee you if you release a month ahead of an expansion, try to beat one, or shortly after, you aren't going to succeed.

I think again it comes down to them trying to apply single player game mentality to the MMO genre. You release a week before your competitor, little timmy who doesn't know what's on the horizon goes out and gets mom to buy the first game. Now when he wants to get game #2 his parents say no he already got one game he doesn't need another. Parents are assholes.

To be honest, if you know your game is shit, it's not a bad idea. Release a month or two before a major WoW content patch or expansion and all the people who are sitting around waiting for more shit to do in WoW will garuntee you almost a million box sales.

Of course then WoW will patch and everybody will abandon your terrible steaming pile of shit game but hey, maybe you made the money back you spent on those giant 54 inch plasma TV's you bought to line the walls with so you could show off how everyone is falling behind on their daily metrics interspaced with announcements of peoples birthdays.

[Utnayan]

Deep thoughts: Maybe this has been planned all along.

You know your game is a piece of shit, release a month before a major WoW expansion and recoup your costs and go back to the bar.

If you know your game is awesome, wait 6 months post WoW expansion and launch then.

Or, analyze both of those and release a pile of shit 6 months post WoW expansion making everyone buying think you have some awesome, when it isn't, you just used reverse psychology and make even more cash off the suckers.

[Azrayne]

I think even shitty games would do better released 6 months later. Look at WAR, lot of people bought it, but most of them jumped ship back to WoW when WOTLK came out because WAR sucked arse, and never gave it another try.

Now if it had released in april or may when the boredom with running naxx for the 30th time started to really kick in, and they'd had the advantage of 6 months to iron out bugs, and there'd been no new expansion for people to run back to, I think Mythic would be doing fairly well for themselves instead of being on the verge of shutting down their game.

I guess my point is it's always better to err on the side of caution. When in doubt, waiting is always the right choice.

[Convo]

I hope Curt lets you in Alpha UT. You're a bit of Vag but I think your feedback may actually help. That is if you can stay classy and post some constructive stuff.

[Ngruk]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

I suggest a Non-NDA Beta to shut me up.

Why would I care about shutting you up? Why would anyone care beyond it being easier to have constructive conversation? If I were to cull anything from this entire thread you've offered in the way of constructive criticism I would be stunned. You've offered absolutely zero that hasn't been brought up by someone else in an easier to read non-pubescent fashion, so who would care?

I've said it before and I will say it again, "Beta" as we all have come to know it, is your game launch. If you think otherwise you're screwed.

You better have a close to completed, close to polished as it can be, ready to go product, when you launch the conventional "Beta".

As far as launch window goes, ya you launch with a million factors in the mix right? Obviously first and foremost has to be a completed kick ass game. But market factors into the launch window as much as anything. Who's launching what when? When is SW coming out? How about Blizz's new MMO? And by our launch date there will likely be about a billion other games being talked about and developed.

We'll have a bunch of opportunities prior to that to prove ourselves in some small ways, that we aren't talking crap when it comes to quality. That we aren't talking out our butts when it comes to what we want to provide as a customer experience. We'll have a bunch of pre-mmo runs at it to make it as perfect as we can.

At that point it's on us, front to back, to deliver.

And as for this?

I hope Curt lets you in Alpha UT. You're a bit of Vag but I think your feedback may actually help. That is if you can stay classy and post some constructive stuff.

If there were even a millionth of a percent of a chance of that happening I'd be stunned. Anything a person like Ut could offer is and has been, and will be, offered by a ton of other players in a format that will actually matter, be understood, be productive, and be offered rationally.

[Ngruk]

Originally Posted by Azrayne

I guess my point is it's always better to err on the side of caution. When in doubt, waiting is always the right choice.

Ya, I don't think anyone would argue that. But if at launch, when your burn is at it's peak, you have the resources to do so, you make that decision. That's one of the things we are working through on funding. You can't have just enough in the bank to get to launch, you need a war chest to be able to hold on, if in fact you want to, and maintain what is an excruciatingly high burn rate for X number of weeks/months, and be able to afford it.

One of the advantages of being self funded is the freedom it has given us to create far more over a far longer period of time before we headed out to talk to publishers about partnerships. We're in a far different position than many small indies that start out in their garages.

[Convo]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

If there were even a millionth of a percent of a chance of that happening I'd be stunned. Anything a person like Ut could offer is and has been, and will be, offered by a ton of other players in a format that will actually matter, be understood, be productive, and be offered rationally.

Makes sense... I tried UT=p

Ya know Curt, I know guys who don't follow MMO's but know of this game and are intrigued enough to ask me questions. I hope you come through on this.

With that said, what do you think? Phils repeat?

[Ngruk]

Originally Posted by Convo

Makes sense... I tried UT=p

Ya know Curt, I know guys who don't follow MMO's but know of this game and are intrigued enough to ask me questions. I hope you come through on this.

With that said, what do you think? Phils repeat?

Hard if the Sox get in and advance. Beckett, Lester in October, with that offense, are going to be hard to beat.

[Convo]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Hard if the Sox get in and advance. Beckett, Lester in October, with that offense, are going to be hard to beat.

Yeah, they will be tough but that would make for an awesome series. Phils are tough as all hell in a 7 game series too. Btw, what's your opinion on Lidge? He just too in his own head?