Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by Greyform

Why can't you post here and on a game specific forum?

Its not impossible by any means. But I think you get more of a feel from what you could consider the "true" average gamer on boards like this. Segmented boards tend to attract those mainly focused on what you're currently working on, rather than free-form ideas that are based solely on past gaming experiences.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Blizzard tried that. It didn't work out so well. It obviously depends on the success of your games but Tigole especially and a handful of other devs used to post here and on other fansites as well (EJ, etc..)

Then Tigole leaked that there were changes in the pipe for some raid zones here before he posted anywhere else and there was a shitstorm about how fan sites were being favored over the DEDICATED FANS OF THE OFFICIAL FORUMS!!!!!!

That pretty much ended that.

You could go the opposite route though. Anybody remember when EQ devs got sick of looking like dumbasses when we kept pointing out bugs in the game that they swore weren't there and nuked flameplay? Then they spent the next two years with their fingers in there ears going "lalalalaworkingasintendedlalala." Despite steel warrior pointing out how striekthrough was basically useless and all the parses and shit going on all over and etc....etc....etc....

Yeah, that worked out well for them.

[gnomad]

Originally Posted by Rayne

Utilising boards like this allow you to glean a lot more information about what interests the average gamer, because the atmosphere is far more relaxed than some official forum would ever be.

Man if you think this board has the "average" gamer you are so out of touch with reality.

I work with many "average" gamers and I can say that not a one of them even knows about this board. Hell most of them don't even use the boards for the games they play.

The "big sites" tend to be more average and moron laden and I have yet to see very many devs ever posting on them.

I am patiently waiting to see if my predictions and comments made way back when in this thread come true.

I have been around this industry (computers and software) since I was first published in 1971, and have seen way too many snake oil salesmen come and go both in the game world and commercial world.

BTW UT you forgot the worst game released in the last 5 years when you mentioned games with long development times and shit products. Darkfail was over a decade in development, had an NDA up to the day of the delayed release and even they showed us more then 38 Studios has shown us so far.

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by gnomad

Man if you think this board has the "average" gamer you are so out of touch with reality.

Well, it depends on how you define "average". I'm not sure what your definition is exactly, but mine tends to lean more toward the "diversely opinionated". And in that respect, theres no better place to garner the real information you're looking for than boards like this.

What could I possibly gain from frequenting official sites? Fanboys telling me to piss off, or my personal favorite, "L2P n00b"? Here, and other places not unlike this, I can sincerely say to those assholes, "go fuck yourself, and now i'm gonna tell you why", without the bother of a 30 to 60 day ban or somesuch nonsense because some egotistical moderator doesn't think my opinion is appropriate for thier forums. Or worse, because what I say may be the truth. For someone so intimately close to the industry for 35+ years, i'd think this would be quite obvious.

Only in places like this can people like Utnayan say whats on thier mind. He may come off completely sideways in his approach at times (or even most of the time), but i'd bet the farm that even though the people who matter may not like his approach, they ARE focusing on some lucid points he tends to make in between.

[Bongk]

I have eaten food my whole life, I guess that means I am a restaurantuer, eh?

The #1 way people lose their lottery winnings is by opening restaurants, everyone thinks they can do it since they eat food every day.

[Kuro]

Just open a restaurant where each patron pays $3 to sit down, but only one in 5 seats gets a $12 meal!

[Lost Ranger]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

And trust me, I have had my fair shake at chances to get in with a shit ton of companies. I stay in Minnesota because my family is here. If they had a development house here, I would put my money where my mouth is. But don't think for a second that the best damn developers have never come from exactly this type of site. Because the shit bags that kiss ass or fuck their way in go no where. The people that love, eat, and breath video games and are that passionate about them - the sky is the limit.

Heh, you must be joking.

Roger Ebert has spent his entire career around the film industry. He spends most of his time telling the public how terrible or good films are. You would think that someone who spends most of his time being critical of the works of others could put his money where his mouth is right? Well he did... and failed horribly. Ebert was FAR more qualified to create something in the industry he is passionate about then you are. In the end the ultimate film critic can't make a film. Ironic isn't it.

Basically until you DO put your money where your mouth is and produce something of worth, cut the shit. It is so tiresome reading your (and others) bullshit when it comes to game design. You people who think you can design video games just because you play them are pathetic. You have NO credentials. I played pong too asshole. It doesn't make you or me a unique and special snow flake. I guess I should go work for Blizzard though right? After all I have been around the industry since the beginning!

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Rayne

Well, it depends on how you define "average".

A lot of posters here while they may not be your average customer are in life situations that make them the average customer. You see it a lot in EQ nostalgia posts mixed in with some retarded point they're making. How many times have we seen the "I'd like to see a game like EQ again with forced grouping, useless classes, terrible itemization and forced poopsocking fatassery but I don't have that kind of time to play anymore now that I have a wife and kids" post?

A lot of us have mass exposure/experience working with the general customer as well. Either working at gamestop or the electronics department at Wal-Mart or what the fuck ever. Or people like me who do house-call PC repairs. I usually fix what's wrong in like 10 minutes but they paid for an hour so I stick around and optimize shit on their PC and have time to kill so I spend a lot of time listening to some 30 something dad talk about his level 80 rogue in WoW who's all excited about Colleseum being so much easier then Ulduar because now his 2000 dps ass can at least get gear.

I used to run Open Raids in EQ as well. You have no fucking idea how grateful people were who had 70 hour work weeks and kids that got to see content they never would have otherwise because they couldn't join a power guild. We had 700 unique players attend our raids over a 6 month period. -700- different people who otherwise would have never seen a PoP god if it hadn't been for us. That's fucking insane.

So please don't fucking tell me I don't have insight into what casual Joe is thinking.

[Utnayan]

My point regarding the possibility of moving into the industry was just that. I have a portfolio, I have mods made, I have levels made, I have scripts of encounters, and all that bru-haha. I can do it, and they knew I could do it. The only thing that was missing was a timeline but I do not fuck around with work ethic, so that would not have been a problem.

I was playing an old console which only played Pong back in 1977 when I was 3. Writing text adventures in Basic on an Apple IIE saved on a floppy when I was 9 and learned the commands 10 Print "Blah", 20 Input A$, 30 Print "Hello..." A$ and all those variables and trees to make a text adventure story about who knows what it was about now. Which progressed into modding, scripting, level design, story design, anything and everything save animation and art which I always sucked ass at.

The point of the post was to say that I was around video games. I dabbled in them, I fucked around, and I could have just up and left my roots and I would be a designer as we speak - but I didn't. It doesn't mean I am creating a 300 million dollar budget fucking movie. Give Ebert some credit their pal, creating a quest line revolving around 4 kids and a fucking haunted pumpkin will be a little easier than heading up an entire movie studio by sitting on the sidelines and studying.

Which is exactly my point in all this. Schilling comes in and spews a bunch of shit that isn't even close to true anyway (Come on... Years in Development to Press releases and info? Could you even be more wrong?) and tries to deflect what he knows he doesn't have. You may be diving into the ring and calling it putting the money where your mouth is, I'd say you might as well burn the shit in a bon fire at Fenway so we can roast some dogs. There is a big difference between knowing what you are doing and putting that money in, than what you are doing - which is throwing money around aimlessly, while running out of investors, running out of time, running out of spin, but worse than all of that; trying to facade your way through this thread like you have a hand to show when the river is dry, the chips are gone, the keg is tapped, and your business fortune teller who told you in 2006 your name would sell the game took the high road back to a radio airwave to compete with Gary Spyvy.

If you want to come in here and be a gamer, than fucking do it. Make a handle and come talk about games where no one knows who you are. I know 4 people who post in this forum who are more famous than Christ. They aren't going to, for one second let anyone know about it, because they want their opinions being taken for what they are (Which is hilarious because 3 have negative internets) while if they didn't, I am sure the bandwagon fanfucks would stride right in and agree with everything they fucking say. To which every single one of you morons would all cling to their tit with anyone that didn't saying, "OH GOD BAN THAT PERSON THEY WILL SCARE AWAY THE MORE FAMOUS THAN CHRIST POSTER I DON'T CARE IF THEY ARE FULL OF SHIT THEY ARE POSTING HERE OH MY GOD HELLO FAMOUS GUY!!!"

Gnomad says it best with regards to this shit.

I have been around this industry (computers and software) since I was first published in 1971, and have seen way too many snake oil salesmen come and go both in the game world and commercial world.

What's worse is a snake oil salesmen parading around as a normal gamer for the pure sake of promotion but then cannot take the heat when the truth comes out.

[Mr Element]

If we could harness Ut's rage and use it for energy, I think we'd have ourselves a perpetual motion device.




But, back on topic. Curt, how long do you think an average encounter/fight should last? I'm not asking directly how long the fights in Copernicus will be, but just wondering if your philosophy is more leaning towards longer EQ-style fights or shorter WoW-length fights.

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

Actually I would consider Shadows of Yserbius and AOL NWN the earliest cave man incarnation of MMORPG's. With a much steeper barrier to entry with cost. And those were in 91. 18 years ago.

It was impossible to do anything as a new character solo in Shadows of Yserbius. It was more hardcore than EQ.

[Utnayan]

Lone Ranger I will also say this, since you brought it up.

Ebert hires Spielberg, then when Spielberg, who knows what the hell he is doing because he has been doing it for so long, tells Ebert he needs to let him change some things or the entire movie is going to get fucked, Ebert fires his ass and hires Dakota Fanning to head up everything.

Now replace that with Curt Schilling and Close.

[Lost Ranger]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

My point regarding the possibility of moving into the industry was just that. I have a portfolio, I have mods made, I have levels made, I have scripts of encounters, and all that bru-haha.

If you have all that and are qualified then simply disregard my post. The point I was making is that simply having passion for something doesn't mean you are qualified to create a product. At the very least it doesn't mean you can create a product that is worth a shit. Having passion for something is a very important part don't get me wrong. Loving what you do always translates into your work. If you have the things listed above then excellent. That makes you about 100x more qualified then 90% of the folks on here who think "I kill fucking dragons online yo!" is all they need to make the next big thing.

I love talking game design as much as the next guy. Just some folks around here need a serious reality check. Most of us if given the chance at designing a real MMO would fail, and badly. A "vision" is a start, but game design is a business. If you can't deal with that part of it (as most can't) then you don't have shit. If you can.. then best of luck!

[Lost Ranger]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

Lone Ranger I will also say this, since you brought it up.

Ebert hires Spielberg, then when Spielberg, who knows what the hell he is doing because he has been doing it for so long, tells Ebert he needs to let him change some things or the entire movie is going to get fucked, Ebert fires his ass and hires Dakota Fanning to head up everything.

Now replace that with Curt Schilling and Close.

Heh, Ut I am not defending Curt here. I can see a train wreck coming easily enough. I was just referring to you personally when it came to the industry. I have little interest in what game curt and co are making. I come to this thread for the drama.

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Lost Ranger

If you have all that and are qualified then simply disregard my post. The point I was making is that simply having passion for something doesn't mean you are qualified to create a product. At the very least it doesn't mean you can create a product that is worth a shit. Having passion for something is a very important part don't get me wrong. Loving what you do always translates into your work. If you have the things listed above then excellent. That makes you about 100x more qualified then 90% of the folks on here who think "I kill fucking dragons online yo!" is all they need to make the next big thing.

I love talking game design as much as the next guy. Just some folks around here need a serious reality check. Most of us if given the chance at designing a real MMO would fail, and badly. A "vision" is a start, but game design is a business. If you can't deal with that part of it (as most can't) then you don't have shit. If you can.. then best of luck!

I totally agree with you. Which I hope you can see where this comes into play. You have a guy coming in here and throwing money at not only a video game (Which is hard enough to do your first time around) but thinking he will also endup with a 5 fold product mix on the first go around because of his name and two others behind it. Problem is, his CEO that knew most about all of it is gone.

This would be different if we were talking about one RTS game or an RPG, or hell, even one MMORPG with substance after 3 years. But we are talking about a guy without any experience who thinks he has it, hiring people to make those decisions and getting rid of one of them because his ego got in the way, while spinning the obvious failure because he is slowly realizing his name isn't going to sell shit any more.

Edit: And you posted before I explained. Sorry