Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[Dis]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

That Tigole is a secret Nazi sympathizer? That the artists will keep trying to sneak in suggestive imagery into all their games like a giant cock in the barrens? That Blizzard's french theme park will be a financial failure?!?

Fuck its only a matter of time. Vivendi is a french company, orcs with blue berets is inevitable...

[Ngruk]

Make no mistake about this.

I've said since day 1 we are NOT competing for dollars any more. Yes there is a price point in the online space, yes you have to manage that, but that's not going to change. MMO's are FAR AND AWAY the best entertainment value in the world.

There will never be more than 24 hours in a day.

Knowing that then the challenge on us is to create something you WANT to log into, instead of a temporary diversion that you leave when it starts costing you.

I've played just about every game out in the past 12 months in the MMO space, from beta's to releases.

NOTHING has made me think 'time to cancel my WOW sub".

That's, imo, EVERY BIT as much on the companies making other MMO's as it is on WoW.

[Horse]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Make no mistake about this.

I've said since day 1 we are NOT competing for dollars any more. Yes there is a price point in the online space, yes you have to manage that, but that's not going to change. MMO's are FAR AND AWAY the best entertainment value in the world.

There will never be more than 24 hours in a day.

Knowing that then the challenge on us is to create something you WANT to log into, instead of a temporary diversion that you leave when it starts costing you.

I've played just about every game out in the past 12 months in the MMO space, from beta's to releases.

NOTHING has made me think 'time to cancel my WOW sub".

That's, imo, EVERY BIT as much on the companies making other MMO's as it is on WoW.

Do you think you have a typical MMO experience, specifically with WoW?

My friends all have the same WoW issue: if they play it the amount required to be top-tier competitive, it takes too much time and dedication. If they don't, they lose access to top-tier competition and the rest of the game is far too easy and/or frustrating because they're relegated to PUGs and stuck slowly obtaining gear.

Playing WoW less has this sort of self-defeating timer where if you're not done with tier_x_content fast enough, tier_x+(.5 or 1)_content comes along and trivializes it by handing you or filling out your gear, not to mention the inevitable nerfing to make the game more accessible.

So they bounce around from game to game never really keeping a sub going forever. When they sense they're not going to beat the "soft nerf timer" on content, they don't push it down, they quit and wait for the new content.

The easy+hard mode made this worse since they don't have this massive chip on their shoulder that they're outwardly missing content. Didn't bother with hard25, did most of hard10 then caught wind of coliseum, stopped, then got geared up and finished algalon via 10 man, literally staying subscribed every other month.

So they're starting to cancel again after going through the new content and doing what they needed to do, finally. Why would they stay subscribed to WoW (having beaten some form of every boss) between now and icecrown?

[Ngruk]

One of the things we are implementing is to address one of the points made above. In WoW, at least for me, if I am not in game I feel like I am losing, or falling behind.

That's something we are working intimately on and some of the results, even now, offer some very cool alternatives to this approach/feel.

[James]

Err, well it's standard human nature, really. If you're in the top 100 guilds or whatever, you're going to be putting a lot more time into the game than someone who is only top 500, or top 1000, or is too busy beating their dick off in Dalaran to make it to level 80. No one can prevent that.

The time issue, though, isn't even really that much. Most players can stomach a good week or two out of the year for a dedicated 'grind' like playing every day to hit the level cap, or burning through a rep required for raiding, or something of that nature. It starts to become an issue when the grind never ends because there's an endless amount of shit you need to do. You finish that raiding rep? Now you need to farm consumables. Farmed consumables? Now you need repair money. Got repair money? Now you need to raid and do it all over again. That shit fucking sucks, and EQ was notorious for adding in an endless grind of bullshit.

It's taken WoW a long time to get away from it, too. As much as I think their fucking badge rewards and 219 gear from heroics is hamfisted and fucking retarded, it has served one purpose of making sure that I will never need to run Naxx again. Not for my friend coming into the game, not for my new recruit, not for a goddamn single soul except unless I'm feeling bored. My raid nights are focused on relevant farm content and progression, period, not running Molten Core in AQ40 and Naxx because that other half of the bindings may drop! (It never fucking did). And the best part is, if I wanted to, I could play 3 days a week at 3 hours a day. Now, there's a few more areas of the game I'm interested in the keeps me logging in, like 10 mans, but I'd put dollars to doughnuts half my raid doesn't play more than 7 hours a week tops.

Now, I'm not in the top 100, or hell even in the top 200 or 300 for that matter, but I have seen every bit of content in the game this expansion thus far, and have a good shot at completing all of it, or at least most of it. At no point in this expansion have I felt that my limited play schedule has kept me behind. The things that have hindered my progress are basic social problems like people not logging the fuck in to raid, or Comcast knocking out half our raid's internet, or 10 people going on summer vacation all at once, things that are basically out of your hands in any casual/semi-casual environment.

And that's really where your biggest barrier to player fun is going to come from. Finding the right goddamn people to play with. Everyone seems to play these games for different reasons, so the more barriers you have in your community, the harder it is to find people to play with. This is why things like cross server transfers always end up happening, why Blizzard is introducing cross server PUGs in addition to their cross server battle grounds and cross server arenas, and why you're going to be able to switch factions and change races. You could have a million people playing the game, but the server with 200 people on it is going to suck shit for play experience compared to the one with 20,000.

Anyway. Mippo has penis breath.

[Mippo]

Well right now I'm only posting concerns, not criticism. There is nothing to criticize. When Beta comes along, if I devote time to it, I will post my concerns / criticisms with the game. Generally, good games will understand and fix the problems, whereas bad games lose customers by the boatload.

As a developer, you need to be able to filter out differences in opinion as opposed to valid concerns. For example, a fact in regards to PVP MMORPG's would be that balance is an extremely important facet of the success of the game as it is directly tied to people's experience with competition. An opinion would be the best way to accomplish that balance. Multiple ways could work, so there isn't any "one" way that is right however some ways are easier to balance then others which once again, is a fact. Basically, a pvp game using identical classes on both sides is easier to balance then a pvp game using different classes.

As a developer, you need to be able to understand the differences of the various types and justify whether a particular path is the way to go. A player's OPINION on the "best" way is irrelevant. That's the key, filtering out the valid posts from the masses which is easy to do *IF* you understand game design properly. It's possible players might think of something you overlooked...

[Mippo]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Maybe you and Mippo can guild together then. I hear he's a pro and you're a nub and you could learn from him.

We were guilded together in the past in a top tier guild in EQ until he managed to run it straight into the ground because everyone wanted to kick him out and he was real life friends with one of the main officers who refused to kick him.

[James]

Little bit more to the left if ya would, sugar tits.

[Ninen]

nm

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

It's really easy honestly. Ut's contributions add nothing, and only take away if you read them. Blind squirrels find nuts every now and then, everyone is right if they throw enough against the wall, but the quicker you get people that are intentionally anti or white noise for the sake of attention the easier it is to recognize that as such, and move on to stuff and opinions that matter or are relevant.

Like not seeing a damn thing come out about your game yet in the three years you have been developing? I was right about EQ, I was right about EQ2, I was right about Vanguard. Christ, I was right about Butler cheating on his wife the day before it happened. I am now right in getting people to think "why in Christ did the CEO just step down", Wait a minute, this guy has nothing to show" and 2 pages ago you were speaking in Jesus Parables. Holy Cats (No pun intended) if that last one doesn't speak volumes, I don't know what does. McQuaid was swallowing more Oxy than Kindergartner's eating Skittles and he never went into that mode.

People are unusually fascinated with car wrecks and other peoples pain, it's why we slow down when we pass one and why a misguided segment of our country turned on Jerry Springer.

You would know. You sure laid one down on Barry Bonds, or the towel over your face with Mitch Williams in the '93 Series. Hey Pot/Kettle.

This thread has been a watershed event for me because for the most part I've been a 'reactor' to things like that and people like him. I've come to find out there is a difference between relevant negative criticism and idiots.

What's relevant is you have jack shit to show, a CEO lost, and you come here and start speaking in what has to be some of the worst spin I have seen since McQuaid. Christ, you are comparing an Apartment and his Landlord to an MMOROPG company. Right now, I am part of your deflection away from the CEO bullshit which is working for you. Otherwise, you wouldn't reply. But please, what's next? Wake me up when you start comparing your MMORPG to the mustard seed.

Ut knows no more about gaming, making games, playing games or games history than anyone else his age on this forum, the difference is he believes he does.

This coming from a guy that knows your product is impending epic fail, your CEO is gone, and your company's gaming experience at this point was acquired from THG. The interim CEO is someone that runs a non profit networking group with no experience in anything you have her in charge for, or of. You are going to try and launch a three pronged product mix which will be based around an IP you hope to God succeeds, because if it doesn't, you will not only fail on the gaming front, you will fail on the comic book front, the movie front, the anime front, and books. To name a few. This also coming from a guy that wants people on the FOH Forum to download his spyware to gauge player play times and what they do in a game, like that should matter in your product to begin with. No, Curt, you have no clue. And while you tried to hire people that did, it's evident that isn't working out so much either. The problem is, your ego. It's the real reason why Close is gone. Admit that much?

With that said, I have been around this industry for decades. I know damn well not to bank on one IP to sell a 5 fold product mix because you just threw all your eggs in one basket and are royally fucked when this IP comes nothing near the competition you will see from mass market media (Even though I don't agree with that as it stifles creativity) I can also sit here and tell you right now that you are pouring too many resources into other things which definitely shows as a lack of development centered around actual gameplay and game design for the MMORPG you plan to launch. The downfall? And something Close most likely tried to inform you about? Was the IP doesn't matter for jack shit if you have no one logging into a game. And that, is your downfall. You are so wound up in making money off this shit, you are failing to realize what will make the game itself successful and why you should never launch 4-5 streams of product at once until it shows anyone even gives a shit about the IP in the first place. Example? Star Wars. Had that movie bombed, and they rolled out 5,000,000 action figures, we would have had enough melted plastic to turn whiffle ball into an olympic sport.

Go spin elsewhere chief. You do not have a leg to stand on in this argument until you buck up and show your cards. Or, you can sit here and continue to spin your ass sideways hoping to deflect the issues your company is facing right now to deter even more negative publicity. (Of which, I am helping with, ironically)

I suggest you toss the exclusive deal you have with your preview mag, and start blasting some information out on this forum. Because the clock is ticking and your spin shows it's near zero hour.

[Gecko]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

This coming from a guy that knows your product is impending epic fail, your CEO is gone, and your company's gaming experience at this point was acquired from THG.

Isn't Moorgard their Creative dude on the MMO side?

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Gecko

Isn't Moorgard their Creative dude on the MMO side?

The community service poster for EQ2.

[Locithon]

*gasp*

I actually agree with one point Ut made. Putting aside the rambling.. the choice not to show a single thing about the game until less than a year before you launch it (time-frame?) may backfire. If you look at WAR.. I think they did a good job hyping the game even though it ended up mostly failing. Didn't they have something like 700,000 beta apps? They announced it about 3 years before launch and slowly released bits of info over that time. By the time beta started most gamers had a good idea of what Mythic wanted the game to be, while at the same time there was interesting speculation from fans. Basically they had people talking about the game for a while which helped gain momentum, it's just unfortunate the game was broken in many areas. But if it wasn't broken... there was some decent evidence they could of given WoW it's first real competition. They had something close to a million box sales when it hit.

[Lleauaric~EW]

People *LOVE* the Warhammer universe. There is no lore that is richer, expansive, more carefully crafted and immersive than what the people from GW have created.

That game was going to do well on its release. Period. Its a goddamn shame Mythic fucked up the game. But there is a track record of that happening.. its really hard to do that lore justice. The only way to do it would be to port over the tabletop game to the PC. Pick your units based on a points scale, line em up, and waaagh, give the option of a turn based game or live. Fuck resource management. War! That would be an incredible game that would blow anything Blizzard had in mind for Starcraft out of the water.. but Games Workshop will *never* allow that to happen because they need to protect their bread and butter.

[Tide]

if there's a new universe and lore I'd like to hear about it early to get involved, rather than wandering around in Beta trying to figure stuff out.