Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Rayne

I'm beginning to see this trend of pre-judging up and coming games on a more regular basis.

You act like this is a new thing. It's human nature to shit all over things the moment we hear about them. Look how well the "THIS IS GONNA BE GREAT!" glass is half full philosophy has worked out. I wouldn't have it any other way either.

I mean, as a gamer, Yahtzee is right. Pessimism just makes more sense. You either get to have a smug attitude because the game in fact did turn out to be shit and you can rub it in the face of all the crushed dreams of fanboys or you are pleasantly surprised when the game turns out really well and everybody is too busy having fun to rub it in your face that you were wrong.

I'd much rather tell Curt his game is going to blow chunks (without my brilliant design idea's that is) and have him try to prove me wrong then cup his balls and blow gently on the tip of his cock and then look butthurt when my 100 dollar collectors edition is in the bargain bin at Wal-Mart for 15 bucks a month after release.

[Dymus]

Pessimism about games is the safe bet, it's like checking in a game of poker. Everyone has been a fanboy and been burned by going all in at some point or another.

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

You act like this is a new thing. It's human nature to shit all over things the moment we hear about them. Look how well the "THIS IS GONNA BE GREAT!" glass is half full philosophy has worked out. I wouldn't have it any other way either.

I mean, as a gamer, Yahtzee is right. Pessimism just makes more sense. You either get to have a smug attitude because the game in fact did turn out to be shit and you can rub it in the face of all the crushed dreams of fanboys or you are pleasantly surprised when the game turns out really well and everybody is too busy having fun to rub it in your face that you were wrong.

I'd much rather tell Curt his game is going to blow chunks (without my brilliant design idea's that is) and have him try to prove me wrong then cup his balls and blow gently on the tip of his cock and then look butthurt when my 100 dollar collectors edition is in the bargain bin at Wal-Mart for 15 bucks a month after release.

Well, I know it isn't anything new really. I guess I meant to say its just a lot more visible now than it was, say pre-WoW. And I suppose it could be attributed to any number of things. Such as growth of the genre, or the high standard of what many consider a success. Success is based more on an arbitrary number these days, rather than the fun factor and staying power as it was earlier on.

In my line of work, anything above what you pay out initially is profit. Therefore the venture was a success. In mmos, at least early on, that same philosophy applied. But in this era, its more about how many millions are playing, rather than the profit margin. To me, the old mantra still applies. If the game builds a solid fanbase, and the revenue that fanbase generates is enough to turn a reasonable profit and keep it alive and expanding, its a success. Niche or otherwise.

I look at examples like AO, EQ, EQ2, and yes, to some extent even Vanguard, as examples of various levels of success. And I think therein lies the problem. That way of thinking is lost in the muck of gamers that are simply unable to accept that not every game is designed with thier specific tastes in mind. And in that thinking, many believe that if a game doesn't get absolutely every detail nailed to thier personal qualifications, its the epitome of failure.

Yeah. If I were Curt, i'd be afraid. Actually, i'd be terrified.

[Ngruk]

Fear of failure is something I've had an abundance of since I can remember. It was the single largest motivator for me as a player. Others found fear of failure to be a paralyzing thing.

Success in the MMO space is, depending on perspective, very skewed. Some people in the business world see WoW and think "millions = success, less = fail" when nothing could be farther from the truth.

Don't let anyone at 38, or anyone that knows us ever tell you that 'knocking WoW down" was a goal, it wasn't, and it won't be.

My goal was to assemble the most talented team possible, and deliver something that hadn't been done before.

If the team delivers on that, we'll be ridiculously successful. Focusing on what others are doing beyond seeing where game play is headed, what innovation is occurring, is detracting from time, effort and money that should be directed at what you are doing.

I look at Blizz, SOE, all of them like I looked at other teams when I played, they're growing the audience we will deliver too. That's a win.

If you log into Copernicus or Mercury and do NOT like it, that's on us. I just need to get you to log in, after that I'll take my chances.

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

If you log into Copernicus or Mercury and do NOT like it, that's on us. I just need to get you to log in, after that I'll take my chances.

You know, I read that and immediately thought to myself:

Its like building a spec house for pure profit. You build the best you can with what you have, put it on the market, and the diceroll begins. Out there somewhere is someone who wants that house. For exactly what it is. Or isn't sometimes.

[Flight]

Looking at Bretts history I suspect it's a combination of two things that have caused this :


i) He is someone who will probably be doing Business Process Re-engineering rather than just running a company. 38S are a pioneer in being an MMO developer, built from scratch, whose whole approach is built around quality. That is 100 times more difficult to achieve than it sounds.


ii) He is probably on the verge of a little burn out right now. Two - three years on this sort of project (ie implementing change - new standards and new ways of doing things - and 'encouraging' other people to adopt it with you) is, firstly, incredibly stressful and demands 100% of yourself and, secondly, he will have achieved as much as he can without degenerating into a 'normalized' approach, where it's hard to continue to implement improvement. It's time to hand it off to the right person.



Those are the reasons he will have given. I suspect he is also a high achiever who wants a new challenge.




Anyone who questions whether MacClean commands enough respect amongst game designers are off their nut. She is Chair Emeritus of the IGDA, for a start.

[Ngruk]

Originally Posted by Rayne

You know, I read that and immediately thought to myself:

Its like building a spec house for pure profit. You build the best you can with what you have, put it on the market, and the diceroll begins. Out there somewhere is someone who wants that house. For exactly what it is. Or isn't sometimes.

Except that this house costs around 100mm to build

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Except that this house costs around 100mm to build

LOL, fair point.

[Northerner]

Originally Posted by Rayne

You know, I read that and immediately thought to myself:

Its like building a spec house for pure profit. You build the best you can with what you have, put it on the market, and the diceroll begins. Out there somewhere is someone who wants that house. For exactly what it is. Or isn't sometimes.

It is an interesting comparison. The money guys go the other way around typically and do market research and then churn out a shitload of cookie-cutter houses at the highest marginal rate of return that they know will sell but hey, that's business right?

You can apply it to almost any business really. Producing cutting-edge custom software doing novel things is far more fun than churning out specific compliance crap that does nothing more than hit the check marks but, as usual, the boring stuff pays well. There is a cost and risk associated with doing something interesting and I applaud those willing to bear it.

[Mippo]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Fear of failure is something I've had an abundance of since I can remember. It was the single largest motivator for me as a player. Others found fear of failure to be a paralyzing thing.

Success in the MMO space is, depending on perspective, very skewed. Some people in the business world see WoW and think "millions = success, less = fail" when nothing could be farther from the truth.

Don't let anyone at 38, or anyone that knows us ever tell you that 'knocking WoW down" was a goal, it wasn't, and it won't be.

My goal was to assemble the most talented team possible, and deliver something that hadn't been done before.

If the team delivers on that, we'll be ridiculously successful. Focusing on what others are doing beyond seeing where game play is headed, what innovation is occurring, is detracting from time, effort and money that should be directed at what you are doing.

I look at Blizz, SOE, all of them like I looked at other teams when I played, they're growing the audience we will deliver too. That's a win.

If you log into Copernicus or Mercury and do NOT like it, that's on us. I just need to get you to log in, after that I'll take my chances.

The problem is that it seems that you think the story is something that will maintain a playerbase which is not true. It's an interest gatherer, something that will give you a competitive edge in the marketplace if your lore is superior.

What KEEPS people playing MMORPG's has not changed in a long, long time. Without going into too much detail people play for the sense of achievement, to fulfill their competitive nature, or for the social aspect of MMORPG's.

A lot of people think Blizzard is taking a risk with Cataclysm but they aren't. The new lore will simply generate new interest in old content, same with the new races. A new race doesn't mess with balance, but will result in a lot of content being reused. The reason it's not a risk is because they aren't changing the core aspects of the game that make it successful. Their system of rewarding players appealing to their sense of achievement is staying the same. The lore is simply a way for them to generate new interest.

Blizzard understands that the story is an interest gatherer, NOT the driving point behind why people continue playing their game. If you think you can simply "improve" on the storyline / lore and that's all it takes for the game to be successful you are in for quite a disappointment. The story is what generates interest, the system and how it appeals to players sense of achievement, and player's competitive and social nature is what keeps people playing.

[Caliane]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Except that this house costs around 100mm to build

No wonder you need more money to finish if you spent 100m on your house.

[Gecko]

Originally Posted by Flight

Anyone who questions whether MacClean commands enough respect amongst game designers are off their nut. She is Chair Emeritus of the IGDA, for a start.

Damn! It must be due to all those games she's designed and developed. Feel free to list them off for me Flight.

[Twobit Whore]

Geez you are some kind of idiot. It's not her job to make games. It's her job to be a CEO of a company and her previous game experience has no bearing on that ability. She isn't deciding what the gameplay will be, she isn't balancing classes, she isn't doing any of that shit. Car company CEOs don't build cars and game company CEOs don't make games. They run a fucking business that produces a product. Just shut the fuck up.

[Agraza]

This whole discussion was/is boring. There is no proof to be found for incompetence until the aftermath. WTB game infoz kthxbai~

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Geez you are some kind of idiot. It's not her job to make games. It's her job to be a CEO of a company and her previous game experience has no bearing on that ability. She isn't deciding what the gameplay will be, she isn't balancing classes, she isn't doing any of that shit. Car company CEOs don't build cars and game company CEOs don't make games. They run a fucking business that produces a product. Just shut the fuck up.

The software industry isn't like a tangible product. Especially when it comes to an MMORPG which is a service based software with initial upfront cost and on going subscription to a service. Her record doesn't warrant the type of business approach an MMORPG needs. Combine that with the only people in 38 understanding about anything game related from an experience point being in the acquisition of an RTS/RPG engine, you have some serious leadership issues. Especially at this critical stage in development when it is time to start ramping up "This is what we have" and showing investors for budgeting, or getting off the pot.

The IGDA is a joke. It's a non profit organization to network game developers. It's like the head of your local IT networking group It isn't running a multi-million dollar company revolving around a key new IP in the MMORPG genre with supposedly the scope for simulteanous launch of comic media and possibly film/book spin offs coinciding. And making that all happen, while garnering funding, while meeting milestones, while keeping business placement on track and keeping those investors keyed in on crucial development cycles - all the while being able to explain why milestones were not hit and why, while regarding cost analysis and profit runs and adjusting the exponential scale those will increase at as launch nears.

She has no experience in any of that. She over saw people writing chincy games on Comcast.net that no one played, beta tested games back in the early 90's which bears no relevence to the complexity of games today, (Nor does that experience count as it was over 17 years ago - anyone in human resources would tell you this) and had dabblings with AOL.

This in no sense of the word says qualifications for overseeing a company who aims to point blank triple icon threat a new IP with multiple product markets. She knows nothing about comics or that industry. She knows nothing about MMORPG's or that industry. She knows nothing about written entertainment.

If she was the CEO of a networking company to bring multiple IP's together for multiple market products, great. She would be perfect.

This is a completely different set of circumstances. No matter how much anyone likes her personally because they work with her.

Edit: I still lov ehow nothing has been said about the spyware contained in Curt's "WoW" media to watch when you play, what times you play, etc and gather info to be used in their marketing trends. This is something we all agreed upon was bullshit. Is this no longer the case now because Curt Schilling is in charge?