Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[Azrayne]

Honestly, I don't think there's an answer. There's no way to provide PvE content that is fun enough that it will last you until the next patch comes out. Either you frustrate gamers with a random loot system and force them to keep paying month after month to try get what they want or you give them a non-random system, have them play for a few months and get bored. Obviously the former is preferable from a financial perspective, but I don't know if that justifies it purely from a gameplay point of view.

At the end of the day though, companies just can't churn out content even close to as fast as it's consumed, and I think that's the inherent flaw in the MMO design. People speak in hypotheticals about user generated content or randomized content, but the company that truly cracks that nut for the first time is going to kick off a new generation of gaming.

Of course the 3rd option is a well designed PvP system, which ideally could basically be an endless font of content, but nobody seems even close to managing that one and Curt doesn't seem like he's going to even try, so I don't know that it's worth discussing.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Azrayne

Honestly, I don't think there's an answer. There's no way to provide PvE content that is fun enough that it will last you until the next patch comes out. Either you frustrate gamers with a random loot system and force them to keep paying month after month to try get what they want or you give them a non-random system, have them play for a few months and get bored. Obviously the former is preferable from a financial perspective, but I don't know if that justifies it purely from a gameplay point of view.

Wait, what? Either way would equate to boredom. First option is more like: Frustrate, Burn Out, and Bore your player base to death. Doing so pisses people off and makes them quit - towards the end of a zone as you start to DE everything but the last couple items people just stop showing up and quit until new content comes out anyways. Well, you hope they come back - sometimes they don't. The carrot only works for so long.

And Christ - some of you want to play MMOs way the fuck too much. I personally do not want and do not need to raid every single week for the rest of my life. I'm all for lull periods in raiding.

[Azrayne]

Well I don't think it's too much to expect a little consistancy from a game. I hate the whole cycle of 'raid for a month or two, get bored, stop playing for 6 months till the next patch.' it makes the whole social aspect of the game a nightmare, because everyone is constantly coming and going. I can't even motivate myself to return when new content does come out because I know I'll get bored, stop playing, be replaced in the raid lineup, then come back in a few months and have to go through the whole cycle with a whole other raid group all over. It's hard to give a fuck when it all seems so transient. Maybe that's just the age of the game showing though, but I think Blizzard's ridiculous content cycles is part of it.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Originally Posted by Azrayne

Well I don't think it's too much to expect a little consistancy from a game. I hate the whole cycle of 'raid for a month or two, get bored, stop playing for 6 months till the next patch.' it makes the whole social aspect of the game a nightmare, because everyone is constantly coming and going. I can't even motivate myself to return when new content does come out because I know I'll get bored, stop playing, be replaced in the raid lineup, then come back in a few months and have to go through the whole cycle with a whole other raid group all over. It's hard to give a fuck when it all seems so transient. Maybe that's just the age of the game showing though, but I think Blizzard's ridiculous content cycles is part of it.

Exactly. It's not a "world" at that point, it's just a game. Log in, push button, receive candy.

There needs to be a reason to stay on longer or develop some sort of attachment to the world itself.

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

The awesomeness of this mindset is hard to explain. You are stupid enough to think I would come here, 'pawn' ideas, then pass them off to our design team....

No, you will come here, and promote your product from a grass roots marketing campaign when you have jack shit to show, and yet I can already see the McQuaid train coming in full force. Your game will be a pile of shit banked on a bunch of has been names. Oh yes, I am sure you will make your quick buck fucko, because that is why you are here - - but I guarantee you your game will suck ass because the talent on your team resembles a bunch of overpaid underhyped Drizzt kiss ass artists. I was right on Vanguard, and I never open my mouth until I know I am right on your bullshit as well. And now my mouth is open. And right now your product is a hanging curve ball with a juiced Canseco licking his lips with an aluminum bat.

You truly are an idiot.

I'd rather be an idiot than a fucking sell out. Bitch.

Those guys are already on these forums, they already read this stuff. Ya, most of it is redundant, much of it is way cooler in theory than application. But every so often someone says some stuff that is better than the rest and if some day it actually happens that something comes out of here that positively impacts Copernicus, cool.

And every so often someone comes in here to pitch their product. We saw what happened last time, and I was here to tell everyone it was going to be the bomb of a fucking lifetime. Then, after the fact everyone said "I cannot believe that raving lunatic was right on EVERY SINGLE FUCKING POST HE MADE." Guess what Tinsletown, it's time to pay the piper. Your glory train of riding the hype from internet people who cannot believe an ex pro athlete (Many of those are here too dipshit) posts here, is done. Oh, I am sure you will sell copies because you attached a couple high profile names. But your game is going to be a fucking epic disaster. And now as you ramp up the marketing blitz, I will be here to show another Vanguard 2.0 in the making.

I'm not designing the game dope, I've had much of 'my say' in that, and we're far past the point of my extensive feature creep capabilities. Now I only cost us time and money we don't have.

Nice play on the humble. Did your agent tell you how to garner the posts here? Wait...

Wait for it...

I finally did figure out how to manage this thread

You sure did didn't you? I would rather have 500 negative internets on a message forum pertaining to a hobby I love and tell it like it is, than blast off using a name I made for myself in a previous life to make money off a shitty product. And worse, off people who won't know any better because the stars are in their eyes. You should fucking be ashamed of yourself.

You are worse than McQuaid.

At least McQuaid was on drugs.

You're doing the same damn thing sober.

[Camerous]

You just have to wonder... how many times did Brad rape Ut to make him hate him so much. Now apparently Curt is the focus point of the nerd rage train.

Wow... just plain wow. Remember kids.. Never go Full Retard!

[Frax]

insert facepalm.jpg here

[Araxen]

I never thought anybody could be worse than Makata and we have found that person. Utnayan should be banned. Someone that nerdrages this bad will only go postal eventually.

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Araxen

I never thought anybody could be worse than Makata and we have found that person. Utnayan should be banned. Someone that nerdrages this bad will only go postal eventually.

At least I have a method to my madness. Your troll train usually amounts to one line rimjobs. You are one of the biggets fucking dipshits on this forum. You amount to jack shit in anything you write. You should not only be fucked from here, your internet access should be revoked by the internet cloud committee. Or maybe I can look to your infinite wisdom of posts like, "Hey guys I hope they test the Aion 1.5 patch before they implement it!" Or, "Makata was better than (Insert name here) because my originality amounts to Curt Schilling's design ideas"

Now run along lemming. Let the big bad postal internet wanna be's continue to post their thoughts and not have to try to be politically correct on a fucking message forum about games. Nor stand idly by while another keystone caper launches on this very forum which has turned into Grassroots of Heaven instead of what it fucking should be. People who are passionate about the genre and don't hop the fucking money train bandwagon. Or worse, stifle their own opinions in the face of e-popularity.

Oh...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Make the fucker (Tm)

[Tred]

Nerd rage? That's his normal state of being. We haven't seen the nerd rage yet.

Oh...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Ban the fucker (Tm) haha he got banned

and an edit just for good measure.

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Tred

Nerd rage? That's his normal state of being. We haven't seen the nerd rage yet.

Oh...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Ban the fucker (Tm)

and an edit just for good measure.

We should probably have a meeting about that. Let's discuss the banning over several months of worthless design that only you are capable of.

Oh....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

How is that picture of your face up against Drizzt's ass doing? Sorry to spoil your boss's marketing campaign

[Vali]

Talk about shitstaining a perfectly good thread. Can posts be rickshawed?

Even if there was some contribution.... at this point it's just ass-vomit.

Moving on....

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

Exactly. It's not a "world" at that point, it's just a game. Log in, push button, receive candy.

I'm with you. I prefer the idea of gradual progression - consistently building upon the achievements of the past. No doubt WoW has benefited from going against this though. Expansions are a reset, everyone wins all the time. For me it cheapens or rather, dilutes, the experience.

Its an intelligent mainstream design though, I just havent figured out how to beat it - especially without alienating portions of the playerbase.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

So here goes. I whole heartedly agree with your point, but not your implementation. It's no secret that I hate random loot. It's simply not -fun- in a group setting. And before you say "But Diablo..." Diablo was a fucking slot machine, not a game. You pulled the lever and saw what came out.

I actually never played Diablo, don't have a clue how it worked. I hate random loot as well, if a person had no life and went back 100 or so pages one might luck out and stumble upon a post of me saying such. I would rather see loot like EQ's Guk did, the frenzied ghoul drops the sash, the froglock king drops the crown, the mage drops the cloak, this I like. WOW's loot makes no freaking sense alot of the time, mobs that drop certain items make one wonder. Why does a caster mob have to drop a warriors shield? It makes sense if that caster happened to have killed some warrior and this is discussed in the lore, perhaps linking the item to a quest that can be completed after the person gets the item, traveling back to the Warriors order and them identifying the object as the shield of their friend, thus you learn the past of your new shield.

Rare loot should not be random, I hate random world drops. I cannot stand that rare mobs spawn in the world and they drop some random green or blue item. Pyzjin dropped her GBS, it made sense. The Pegasus in South Karana that I never actually managed to find and kill despite living in South Karana for probably a friggin month dropped the levitation legging, this makes sense. It also made those rare mobs in those zones cool. Instead WOW puts all the rare cool loot onto every single mob as a ridiculously rare drop, this sucked IMO. I don't need to get anything more then some wolf fur when I kill some random wolf in whatever zone, but if the super rare wolf hunter NPC spawns in that same area I want his rare wolf hunting bow or what have you to have a chance to drop.

Rare loot should not be random, loot should not be random in general, there should be meaning behind where it drops. Same thing for quest scrolls and whatnot, the wizard you just killed should be where you get that rare wizard scroll. Then again when it comes to spells, skills, ect... I am going to continue to feel that stuff should generally all be gained via quests and traveling the world to acquire the knowledge after an initial intro period where some weak trainer gives you the basics. You should need to kill the wizard and read his scrawlings on his desk in that dungeon after he dies to learn Vortex, you should need to fight that bandit in that quest line to learn the backstab skill by seeing him do it. Trainers should not be doling out level 70 and level 80 spells and skills for a few gold, at the end of the day that stuff should be gained out there in the world. It should be a big part of the game, gaining the abilities of your character should be a driving force behind doing stuff like dungeons and quests more then loot.

[Tred]

Originally Posted by Utnayan

We should probably have a meeting about that. Let's discuss the banning over several months of worthless design that only you are capable of.

Oh....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

How is that picture of your face up against Drizzt's ass doing? Sorry to spoil your boss's marketing campaign

And off the deep end he goes. You assume quite a bit if you're actually referring to me. Of course my design is worthless. I'm not a fucking Dev nor will I ever be. Fucking psycho.

[Utnayan]

Originally Posted by Vali

Talk about shitstaining a perfectly good thread. Can posts be rickshawed?

This isn't a perfectly good thread. It's a fucking ad campaign. Nothing more, nothing less. With morons stating the obvious because Curt Schilling is in the thread. "Hey guys, I think logical progression is the way to design a game. I mean, we need our characters to progress while progressing. You need to have that logical progression in today's society which should mimic an MMORPG because you are trying to mimic the life of a character with logical progression. I mean, let's progress that level. It's needed."

Maybe we can state the obvious about loot too while we are at it?

"I think loot is a critical function in MMORPG's today. More loot should be available to loot because without loot we have no loot and we cannot shout WOOT LOOT if we have no loot"

Maybe we can start discussing graphical options.

"Honestly, we need 18 million colors in today's game. Without those colors I cannot design the artsy tree I want to make because those trees bring the life to the game. On a side note, maybe we can make a tree that levels on it's own and grows, and we can chop it down later and take a reputation hit and loot the rare wood that is a world drop in an instance of a forest of trees that now hate me and drop leaves on my ass every time I run by on my mount (which is a tree mount which pisses off those fucking trees even more)

Christ, I am a roll here. Schilling make sure to analyze this to make sure it will sell.

"Control today should remain on the WASD keypad with my right hand on the mouse. This way I can Alt Tab faster to porn while flying on a mount, take the hand off my mouse and put it on my other mouse if you catch my dirft. And we need sound to remain on, or at least have the option, so if I get attacked by an elf, I can say, "God Damn it - Be right back 1978 picture of Farrah Faucet... be right back baby" and return easily to blow my rage (No pun intended) on the elf. If I was using arrow keys, I would have two extra steps and that would piss off the one eyed trouser trout."

"Music plays a key functionality in today's game. We should have music. I want music where I can have the local Mozart rehash in my left ear, and Fergie's big girls don't cry in my right ear, so I can experience the atmosphere and still relate to the night elf who just got my sword jammed up their ass while running down the road. So as you can see Curt, Music is a key focal point in today's gaming development cycle. Make sure to hire Jeremy Soule so we have have Morrowind rehacks for the rest of our life. Thanks"


Cliff notes: Quit stating the fucking obvious.

Cliff notes part 2: An ad campaign doesn't make a thread. Now if Schilling would have shut the fuck up about who he was and guised his internet handle, then started the thread, it would be different. At least then it would only be a bunch of morons stating the obvious for no particular reason.

Edit: For Tred. Who hopefully will get hired to put edit buttons in every MMORPG from here on out. And in the case of the upcoming pile of shit we will see from Schilling, maybe we can edit that a year later and come out with something that won't charge the consumer for development.